Where's the American Fantasy RPG?

L. Frank Baum's Oz series established American Fantasy as a genre, and yet it hasn't had much influence on popular tabletop role-playing games despite several fantasy authors providing the inspiration for co-creator Gary Gygax's Dungeons & Dragons. Why not?

L. Frank Baum's Oz series established American Fantasy as a genre, and yet it hasn't had much influence on popular tabletop role-playing games despite several American fantasy authors providing the inspiration for co-creator Gary Gygax's Dungeons & Dragons. Why not?

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Picture courtesy of Pixabay.

American Fantasy Defined

As described in The Fantasy Tradition in American Literature, the tenets of American Fantasy include a contrast between real world struggles and a fantasy land (Kansas vs. Oz), the Garden of the World set in the midst of the Great American Desert (Oz), and pastoral qualities that encompass the heartland like corn fields, crows, wildcats, and field mice. Baum's Oz is different in character but similar in texture to American agrarianism.

There is technology too, always at the cusp of becoming ubiquitous, with objects taking on a life of their own. Baum was uneasy about the impact of technology on society: concerned about the impact of "flying machines", worried about what would happen to premature children in "incubators", and wary of slick-talking characters using gimmicks and puppetry (the titular Wizard of Oz). Judging by the abuse Baum heaps on an animated phonograph, he wasn't a fan of recorded music either.

As Brian Attebery puts it in The Fantasy Tradition:

"Oz is America made more fertile, more equitable, more companionable, and, because it is magic, more wonderful. What Dorothy finds beyond the Deadly Desert is another America with its potential fulfilled: its beasts speaking, its deserts blooming, and its people living in harmony."

Gygax and Dave Arneson were following a European tradition, itself descended from historical battles of interest in Chainmail, infused with their own American influences, such that little of Oz appears in D&D. At least not overtly.

Ozian Elements in Plain Sight

Jack Vance's influence on D&D is significant. From the "Vancian" spellcasting system to the Eye and Hand of Vecna, Vance's work permeates the game. Vance was a big fan of Baum's work and cited him as a major influence. One character recreates the Land of Oz in The Madman Theory (written by Vance under the pen name Ellery Queen), but Baum's influence goes beyond that work and appears in the Dying Earth series, as explained in Extant #13:

"...I speculated that the Phanfasms inspired the village of Somlod, as seen through the lost lenses of the demon Underheard (Cugel the Clever), and that Sirenese society, in The Moon Moth, was inspired by the Whimsies. Among the scarce commentators on Vance there seems little interest in the Baum influence, while influences which are minor or even nonexistent are often emphasized, such as Clark Ashton Smith."

Cugel, whose adventures take place in The Dying Earth setting, has more in common with the Wizard of Oz than Dorothy of course, and his adventures would go on to form the thief archetype in D&D, as per Gygax:

Of the other portions of the A/D&D game stemming from the writing of Jack Vance, the next most important one is the thief-class character. Using a blend of “Cugel the Clever” and Roger Zelazny’s “Shadowjack” for a benchmark, this archetype character class became what it was in original AD&D.

The Dying Earth wasn't a fantasy world, but a post-apocalyptic one set long after technology had fallen into decay. And that's a hint of where we can find Oz's influence.

Talking Animals, Weird Technology, and Untold Wonders

D&D has strayed from its cross-dimensional sci-fi roots, but one game has never wavered from its focus on a post-apocalyptic world filled with strange beasts, ancient technology, and hidden secrets: Gamma World.

The parallels between Gamma World and Oz (where animals can talk, characters can play robots, and humans are relics of another world), as filtered through Vance, finally gives Baum his due. If Baum was so influential on Vance, why hasn't there been more discussion of the parallels? The editor of Extant #13 explains:

"Given Vance’s own repeated and enthusiastic declarations regarding Baum, as well as the obvious parallels between Vance’s favorite Oz book (The Emerald City of Oz) and several of his own stories, I cannot rid myself of the suspicion that this lack of interest suggests an enthusiasm about certain subject matters and styles rather than an interest in Vance as such. I also suspect the Baum influence lacks appeal because he seems old fashioned, quaint and childish. The fashionable taint of the weird is absent."

This may be why Gamma World has struggled to find its audience like D&D has. Where D&D's tropes are so embedded in pop culture to be ubiquitous these days, Gamma World—like Oz—has alternately been treated as ludicrous, deadly serious, or just plain wacky ... the same criticisms leveled at Baum.

It seems we already have our American Fantasy RPG, it’s just a little “weirder” than we expected.
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

Doug McCrae

Legend
Superheroes are the American myth, right up there alongside the Western
I agree and I'd add that the first American superhero, Superman, is even more distinctively American because he is an immigrant, both to the US and to Earth. For most of the character's history (though not in Action Comics #1) his immigrant status has been particularly important because it's the source of his powers.

Compare with Dorothy Gale and John Carter (one of the major inspirations for Superman) who are both immigrants, to Oz and Mars, but emigrants from the US. Wonder Woman is an immigrant to the US from Paradise Island, but it's not the source of her powers - she would still be superhuman on Paradise Island.
 
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Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
How many game sessions would you consider a movie or episodes worth of screen time?

And some of the characters certainly develop a lot. How much did Coulson and May develop?

Are their at least three big reasons for needing resets in comic books? One is that character's appeal is in their development (like younger mutants or spider-man) and that at some point they've gone past that stage (they're the adults now and are getting married instead of doing teen angst). Is this like in D&D where campaigns stop some time between level 10 and 20 instead of continuing on (where an E6 type thing, or one with slower advancement like I remember in VtM could keep going). A second could be that they're looking for a big sales boost and to draw people in that have drifted over time whenever a story hits a lull? (The continual sets of new number 1s in comics, but no particular major change. The long time campaign has kind of stalled, so lets reboot it). A third could because one of the authors decided to have a formerly stable character develop to a dead end storytelling stage (after x00 issues of gradual armor improvements that don't really change the stories, Tony goes nanites, or after x00 issues of doing his thing Thor becomes powerful enough to put back together the moon)?

Oh, I agree with those. Character resets (let alone entire franchise or shared universe resets) are in part influenced by the fact that these comics have been running for longer than almost anyone alive today. Sure, sometimes these resets happen in rapid succession due to changing demographics or a failed storyline that led to massive reader backlash (like Secret Empire's Hydra-Cap) but they're usually a result of trying to keep these characters relevant to changing times, demographics, and generations.

I agree that it's not all that different from a party that's played the same characters for years and decided, rather than start over with new characters in a new campaign, to start over with new iterations of their characters. I know that I've run my main PC in about a dozen different campaigns over the years, often with some carry over parties but a different total make up and different worlds and settings, and campaign stories that started from Level 1, so it didn't make sense to "import" the character as-is from his past adventures, but instead reboot him.

I agree and I'd add that the first American superhero, Superman, is even more distinctively American because he an immigrant, both to the US and to Earth. For most of the character's history (though not in Action Comics #1) his immigrant status has been particularly important because it's the source of his powers.

Compare with Dorothy Gale and John Carter (one of the major inspirations for Superman) who are both immigrants, to Oz and Mars, but emigrants from the US. Wonder Woman is an immigrant to the US from Paradise Island, but it's not the source of her powers - she would still be superhuman on Paradise Island.
Created by two 1st-generation Jewish-American comic book writers/artists, Jerry Sieger and Joe Shuster from NYC & the Tri-State area. Notably, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and Steve Ditko were all also 1st-generation Jewish-American comic book writers/artists from NYC and the Tri-State area. (Note also that Bob Kane was a descendant of Eastern-European Jewish immigrants, though not 1st-generation, and Bill Finger was an Eastern European Jewish immigration 1st generation American as well, and those two created Batman).

The turn of the 20th century Eastern-European Jewish immigration to NYC and its suburbs had a profound influence on the dawn of comic books as the All-American myth.
 
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ART!

Deluxe Unhuman
There are more Superhero RPGs available now than ever before. M&M is probably the biggest and has been in its 3rd edition for at least ten years now and has had a steady stream of releases for years.
  • M&M. They had a DC Heroes branded version that was 4 books.
  • Champions is still around in 6th edition "complete" form.
  • Icons.
  • BASH.
  • various Savage Worlds super-books including Necessary Evil which is still an awesome concept and campaign.
  • The late lamented Marvel Heroic Roleplaying from Margaret Weis Productions circa 2012 which was an incredibly different and interesting take on a superhero RPG.
  • AMP Year One etc.
  • Aberrant is coming back in a new edition
  • Aeon Trinity already is back in a new edition
There are ten just off the top of my head. If you go to DTRPG and poke around there are far more. None of them are on a 5E D&D level but then Supers has always been a steady presence in RPG's, though never a dominant one.

Oh, I'm aware of (and have played) all of those, I was just trying to say what you say here - that no single system has become the go-to for people hungry to create their own supers game, inspired by their favorite supers tv series, movie, or movie series - not in the way that D&D has for fantasy. Heck, not even two of them have done that for supers, like D&D and Pathfinder have for fantasy.
 

Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
How many game sessions would you consider a movie or episodes worth of screen time?

And some of the characters certainly develop a lot. How much did Coulson and May develop?
Regarding game sessions - that really depends on how much people normally get done in a session. I try to an "episode" worth of content, or an "act" of a movie. But that can really be tricky. Some nights we only get a few major scenes done in 4 hours. 5th edition certainly has sped up gameplay, though. Our sessions moved much more slowly back in 4e.


Regarding Coulson and May, I'd argue they both developed a lot over the series as well. My partner tells me that she feels that Coulson is fundamentally different from the person he was in Iron Man and through Phase 1 by the time of Season 5 (to her disgruntlement). I'd say one way we can examine his development is from Captain Marvel to the S4 flashbacks he has with May to then all the events of Phase 1 and then the show.

I mean, this is the every-man MiB agent who dies, is resurrected due to his value as the heart binding the Avengers together, get to put together his own team/family of agents, grows into the shoes of Fury, gets his hand cut off and replaces it with a robot one that can generate an energy shield projection that looks a bit like Cap's shield but with the Shield logo, is set back to a normal agent role because he can't be the face of the organization as he's supposed to be dead, reclaims the leadership, becomes Ghost Rider for a bit, learns how to survive in a post-apocalyptic world and makes his way back to our world in time to die again and come to peace with it but not before facing his own demons, only to come back to life multiple times (first as a possessed recreation from Hell, then as a freakin' robot and a man in a TV and another robot) with super strength.

May starts the series with more blackbelts than Natasha Romanoff ("she's a friend"), but further grows through the series, too. By the end of the series, she's gone from being a closed off cold wall of an agent who has sealed her anger and feelings as a coping mechanism to beng an empath and teacher at Coulson Academy. Along the way she's had to overcome her demons, see her ex-husband come back into her life only to transform into her worst nightmare and defeat him - at great cost - and even learn how to fly spaceships through a post-apocalyptic asteroid field (she's an expert airplane/quinjet pilot but flying in space is a different matter altogether).
 

Ace

Adventurer
Oh, I'm aware of (and have played) all of those, I was just trying to say what you say here - that no single system has become the go-to for people hungry to create their own supers game, inspired by their favorite supers tv series, movie, or movie series - not in the way that D&D has for fantasy. Heck, not even two of them have done that for supers, like D&D and Pathfinder have for fantasy.

I think this s because super hero RPG's don't feel like comics very much. Even when you can lock your player's down and get them into the mechanics and the genre assumptions like say no Iron Age Azrael types in a Silver Age game, game play isn't very super.

And while say Mayfair Games DC/MEGS and TSR Marvel/FASERIP were able to capture the numbers right out if the handbooks of the time, they can't make them play well on the table. FASERIP which is tied to the old Marvel Handbooks in numbers was closer and even included genre reinforcement, it still never felt quite right and wouldn't hold up to player ingenuity. We still played a lot of it anyway since we all were into the comics (it was along time ago in Galaxy, well nevermind) but it wasn't well super enough
 
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Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Regarding Coulson and May, I'd argue they both developed a lot over the series as well.

Is the development of the teenager to adult, who is building on/learning to control their powers in major ways, fundamentally different than the trajectory of an adult who is developing and experiencing the changes of life and gradually adding on new skills here and there? It feels like the later can go on a lot longer without a reboot than the former. Does D&D's level system well serve the second kind?
 

Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
Is the development of the teenager to adult, who is building on/learning to control their powers in major ways, fundamentally different than the trajectory of an adult who is developing and experiencing the changes of life and gradually adding on new skills here and there? It feels like the later can go on a lot longer without a reboot than the former. Does D&D's level system well serve the second kind?

I think D&D's level system can serve both well, but remember that experience and levels are arbitrary and not tied to the passing of time or specific types of accomplishments (an executioner is not a level 20 Assassin Rogue because they kill a bunch of people for their job, gaining XP for each kill - it's not awarded that way).

I think we could easily chart out popular heroes and their changes and developments, whether friendly neighbourhood teenage heroes or adult MiB field agents, onto D&D style character development. But until Agents of SHIELD, I'd argue that Coulson was an NPC. Maybe in Avengers he was a DM PC like Fury and possibly Hill, but if I was running Avengers as a D&D campaign he'd definitely be controlled by the DM, with the party being specifically Tony, Steve, Natasha, Bruce, & Thor (+Clint as the new player joining the group near the end of the adventure and the DM quickly providing a solution to turn one of the antagonists into a PC character). Coulson is an NPC designed to make the party work with each other rather than fall apart (they've all got Coulson in their backgrounds' bonds section due to past solo adventures the DM ran for each of them prior to this big table game).

Then the DM's brother and sister-in-law decide they want to play their own campaign, and they take on Coulson and grant him a bad-ass colleague in May. Jed and Mo recruit their friend Jeff Ball to DM their game since Joss is too busy making the sequel campaign to Avengers. ;)
 

Reading this thread I suspect the real American "fantasy" is people assuming that what games happen to be played has to do with consumer preferences as revealed by the great and powerful invisible hand of the market.

As opposed to DnD being dominant because of network effects, and Pathfinder being successful because they were able to fork it.

For rest of the absurdly tiny "industry", isn't it really the arbitrary interests of talented games designers that often determines what stands out? Night Witches didn't raise $50K because there was a pent up demand for an RPG about Soviet Airwoman during World War II, it's because people rightly assumed Jason Morningstar would make a cool game, Just as earlier gamers found that Stafford made an interesting game out of Arthurian legends, because he was skilled and passionate about it.
 

Great call! Manly Wade Wellman's Silver John tales are woefully out-of-print. Fortunately my library had a dusty copy of The Old Gods Waken in storage. Definitely a solid example of American Fantasy. The Chained Coffin is a great descendant that manages to meld its Appalachian folk influences into a traditional fantasy setting.

Oh, and I have been remiss for not mentioning this before now: If you want to try Appalachian fantasy, Dungeon Crawl Classics has recently reprinted a collected Chained Coffin book, which features the Shudder Mountains, a fantasy setting inspired by the Silver John stories of Manly Wade Wellman. Both the stories and setting are worth a look.
 

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