D&D 5E What's wrong with this psion?

[Crimson Longinus]

People who want psionics are consistent about one thing: psionic powers aren't spells. If the character casts spells, they're not a psion.

Therefore, the character in the OP isn't a psion. It's a psychic-themed spellcaster.

Now, there's no actual consensus on what psionics are - just that they are not spells. So I understand WotC's problem here - they really ought to just pick an mechanic and run with that, surveys be damned. If the class doesn't suck (and doesn't cast spells) people will get on board. Every other ask is just a detail.

Right, they just use 'psychic powers' which totally are not just another name for spells! Make a fluff sidebar that psions use 'psychic powers' which for rules purposes are represented by spells. Done.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

What makes this character not a psion?

Human 9th Level Psionic Soul Sorcerer
Cantrips: Friends, Mage Hand, Message, Mind Sliver, Minor Illusion
1st Level: Charm Person, Id Insinuation
2nd Level: Detect Thoughts, Hold Person, Levitate
3rd Level: Fear, Psionnic Blast
4th Level: Confusion, Ego Whip
5th Level: Dominate Person

Metamagic: Subtle Spell, Heightened Spell

Too many "person" powers. Obviously Hold Anything is not balanced at 2nd-level. Psions used to have somewhat different powers, for instance, 2e's Id Insinuation was weaker than Hold Person (no defensive penalties) but worked on anything with a mind. (I have no idea what 5e Id Insinuation is, though.)

Instead of Dominate Person, just Domination, with a drastically shorter duration. A bunch of spells could be ditched and replaced with more appropriate powers.

Subtle Spell should be by default. Note that psionics also shouldn't have components for most powers, and... yes, that makes psions powerful, so they have to pay for that somehow.

Where are the defenses? Psions in 3e had an equivalent to Mage Armor, called Inertial Armor. The power is basically identical, just with a more suitable name. Or do it 2e style (weaker defenses, but proficient in light armor automatically, no proficiencies means no issues with armor). 3e style is easier.

 

[Cadence]

Right, they just use 'psychic powers' which totally are not just another name for spells! Make a fluff sidebar that psions use 'psychic powers' which for rules purposes are represented by spells. Done.

I'm pretty sure sidebars are rules of you say them right. (Or so I've heard.). You also need for them not to need components.

 

[Maxperson]

Only the last one is a real thing, so giving them a trait that would let them to ignore components like some subclasses already do would fix this.

Are you seriously claiming that sorcerers are not arcane casters who draw on external magic to cast spells?

 

[Mistwell]

If I had to guess... here are the first few "arguments" why it isn't...

• Those abilities all use verbal, somatic, and material components. Psion disciplines don't.

subtle spell addresses this directly. It's why he took it.

• Those abilities can all be countered by Counterspell. Psion disciplines aren't able to be.

True. I think that's how it should work anyway, but if you don't that's a fair point.

Those abilities can only be used in certain combinations per day based upon the "spell slots table". Psion disciplines can be used freely in any combination up to a certain power point.

Flexible Casting addresses this directly

Those abilities only are used via a single subclass, rather than multiple different psionic subclasses, like Telepath, Kineticist, Metamorph, Lurker etc.

He's asking about this subclass. We can present others with other builds, but he's asking about this one.

Those abilities look like magic, feel like magic, and play like magic. Psion disciplines should do none of those things.

This is up to your role-playing. No rules will provide these things for you, because a table can play anything as magic or not-magic if they want to. It's also kind of a dodge - IF this were a psion build, with refluffed color attached to it, what do you think of it?

 

[Cadence]

Are you seriously claiming that sorcerers are not arcane casters who draw on external magic to cast spells?

Does one of them draw on divine? Or do they get healing spells another way? Or am I conflating editions?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Are you seriously claiming that sorcerers are not arcane casters who draw on external magic to cast spells?

They are casters who draw on their innate magical power. For most of them that might be fluffed as 'arcane' but there is divine soul which sounds pretty 'divine' to me.

 

[Maxperson]

Does one of them draw on divine? Or do they get healing spells another way? Or am I conflating editions?

Power sources don't mix. For example the Bard is an arcane class that has cures as arcane spells.

In 3e there was a class that was divine and built on the sorcerer chassis, but all of those spells were divine.

Other than a multi class character, you don't end up with both divine and arcane sources spells.

 

[TwoSix]

Are you seriously claiming that sorcerers are not arcane casters who draw on external magic to cast spells?

Fluff. Arcane has no real meaning other than in the narrative, as does "external magic". If WotC releases a subclass that says a psionic soul sorcerer is a psionic caster with internal magic, then that becomes a new fluff construct with a new narrative for the setting.

Plus I'm assuming that "divine soul" sorcerers are not "arcane" casters.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Presented in that way, I'd be curious to see what happened. I would assume that many (not all, but many) psionics fans would prefer (A,B),D,C while non-psionic fans would prefer D,C,(A,B).

Well, you know what? Most psionics fans can already play this. They already HAVE the Mystic. They can play Mystics right now all they want. But apparently that's not good enough. Because nobody else would be playing it.

And apparently, nothing in D&D is "real" unless WotC publishes it in a book with a pretty cover and a couple of Mike Schley maps and thus everyone is using it. It's not enough to have psionic rules that a player is happy with... they need every other D&D player in the world to use the same rules.

Frankly, I think in most of these arguments about Psionics, Warlords, subclasses, feat balance, under-powered Rangers etc. etc. etc.... it's much more about personal ego than it is about having a game set a person enjoy using. They need THEIR desires to be embraced by everyone and published in a book. Because only then do their needs and desires count.