D&D 5E Greater Invis and Stealth checks, how do you rule it?

[Ovinomancer]

Sometimes there's no check at all because the only way someone could locate someone is to see them can not happen (the silent imp flying above the market). Other times times location will automatically be known (fighting in a swamp).

In general I don't give "free" stealth checks, I may give dex checks (no proficiency) to help set the perception DC.

My question was asking if you're always evaluating the situation to see if you give out free hide attempts and you respond by telling me how you do checks. The question wasn't about how you might do checks (although it's interesting you don't allow for proficiency to affect those) but if you are constantly evaluating for the opportunity to give a creature a free hide attempt.

Corollary to the question: how often are you giving out free hude attempts? Often, occasionally, or rarely?

 

[NotAYakk]

The monk sprints off at a ridiculous speed into an empty field 6 second ago? You are free to try to attack her. Roll with disadvantage. If you hit you hit. I will invent a reason why it works if you hit.

If you hit, probably you are told where they. If you miss, probably not.

Coming up with a reason it can hit is easy; they just revealed where they where, and while invisible have been moving at top speed without a care to conceal where they are. A drop of blood, a woosh of ash, a bird knocked out of the sky, a spray of sweat, a leaf that flickers out of existence as it hits the invisible monk, a grass stem bent under a footfall.

You could come up with a contrived situation where there is no plausible way to figure out where the invisible monk is, but I am narrating the world. There aren't spherical blackbody cows, and I have little need for them in stories I tell.

You want to be 100% immune to attacks at disadvantage? Burn an action or get total cover.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think one absolutely must evaluate the need for free stealth checks or otherwise make certain things hidden in some situation or nonsense ensues. Greatly reduced visibility whether it was due an invisibility spell, obstacles blocking line of sight, darkness, smoke or fog etc is certainly the sort of thing that require this sort of assessment.

 

[Oofta]

My question was asking if you're always evaluating the situation to see if you give out free hide attempts and you respond by telling me how you do checks. The question wasn't about how you might do checks (although it's interesting you don't allow for proficiency to affect those) but if you are constantly evaluating for the opportunity to give a creature a free hide attempt.

Corollary to the question: how often are you giving out free hude attempts? Often, occasionally, or rarely?

There is no such thing as a free stealth check in my game.

There are times when there is no need to hide because there is no chance of determining location or even detection. The imp that turned invisible and flew away is just gone. If a creature cannot make a stealth check but detection is uncertain they may make a dex check (no proficiency). The reason I do a dex check with no proficiency is because they are simply trying avoid obstacles but they aren't being as careful as they might with an actual stealth check.

There are a bunch of factors though, and I may give advantage/disadvantage or just set a DC. To paraphrase Barbossa, it's more of a guideline really than a concrete rule.

Not being seen because of invisibility? Fairly rare in my current campaign, the PCs just got to 9th level and no one has invisibility. Previous campaign that went to 20? It started to be more common. Not being seen because of magical darkness, fog, blindness, total cover? Fairly common. Invisible or unseen monsters can be a fun change of pace but if used too often they're just annoying. Maybe 1 in 10 or 20 encounters? Less? I don't really keep track

 

[Maxperson]

@Maxperson, I feel like you are dodging the question (Dodge action? ).

There is a very SPECIFIC combat scenario posed by the OP:
The monk is invisible (presumably from Greater Invisibility) and hiding.
Then the monk attacks (action), giving away their location.
Then the monk moves away 100' with step of the wind (bonus action).

At this point you are saying the invisible monk is now hidden again (due to combat noise, being invisible, etc) without having to take the Hide action. Is that correct?

Unfortunately the scenarion isn't nearly very specific. If it was part of my game, I would know Ll the details. For instance, are there 6 other combatants in plate armor fighting next to the monk's target? If so, there's no way the target heard the running monk over that racket. That's the problem with these sort of scenarios.

Also, 33 yards away is a long way to hear someone breathing or running in soft shoes/barefoot like monks typically dress.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Unfortunately the scenarion isn't nearly very specific. If it was part of my game, I would know Ll the details. For instance, are there 6 other combatants in plate armor fighting next to the monk's target? If so, there's no way the target heard the running monk over that racket. That's the problem with these sort of scenarios.

Also, 33 yards away is a long way to hear someone breathing or running in soft shoes/barefoot like monks typically dress.

Got it. Free Hide action sometimes at your table. Not that it really matters to me what you do at your table, just helps me understand where you are arguing from. Thanks for the clarifying reply.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

To better understand where people are coming from, what if the space is some sort interior space, dungeon, house, labyrinth etc where there are many rooms and corridors that are part of the 'combat area'. Would creatures running around there still remain auto-locatable unless they stop to take a hide action? What if they don't even run, just teleport to some location in the area that cannot be seen?

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I think one absolutely must evaluate the need for free stealth checks or otherwise make certain things hidden in some situation or nonsense ensues. Greatly reduced visibility whether it was due an invisibility spell, obstacles blocking line of sight, darkness, smoke or fog etc is certainly the sort of thing that require this sort of assessment.

Of course. I wouldn't call it a "free stealth check" necessarily - but I get your meaning. In some situations, it's an auto-success on the goal of being concealed based on the environment and the PC's approach. For some reason, though, people want to toss the Hide action out with the bathwater just because a monk is invisible and there's maybe a bunch of combat noise and the monk ran some distance and is presumably still in the combat area. Without any other details of the scenario, I find that strange.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

To better understand where people are coming from, what if the space is some sort interior space, dungeon, house, labyrinth etc where there are many rooms and corridors that are part of the 'combat area'. Would creatures running around there still remain auto-locatable unless they stop to take a hide action? What if they don't even run, just teleport to some location in the area that cannot be seen?

We are talking about a 6 second combat round. Stuff is really happening nearly simultaneously. The creature running away to another room doesn't get the full 30' away (or whatever) before the enemy even moves an inch. Following someone in that situation and spotting them is not unreasonable unless the fleeing creature made some effort (and there was enough action economy) to be stealthy or Hide. Teleporting to a location that cannot be seen on the other hand - well, the pursuing creature needs to get really lucky to come close to finding the teleported creature before the next round, Hide action or not. After that, I suppose we'd have to resort to the Hide and Seek rules (Tasha's maybe? )

 

[Maxperson]

Got it. Free Hide action sometimes at your table. Not that it really matters to me what you do at your table, just helps me understand where you are arguing from. Thanks for the clarifying reply.

Hide is never free. At a minimum it has a cost in spell slots or whatever else is being used to get there.