D&D 5E Greater Invis and Stealth checks, how do you rule it?

[Flamestrike]

That's not the OP's scenario of someone who's a hundred feet away

They're not 100 feet away from the guards, despite placing their miniature 20 squares away and it being there at the end of their turn.

That's an abstraction.

We dont know how far away they got from the Guards till the end of the round.

It's only then that their relative positions after six seconds are known.

 

[Oofta]

For anyone that hasn't listened to the podcast, this "slamdunk" that was found was an example where a GM could say that a group of orcs might lose track of an invisible mage in a situation where a barbarian was attacking them while screaming and a rogue had set off some kegs of gunpowder nearby. In other words, absolutely nothing different from what the rest of us have been saying -- in special circumstances, it's a GM's call.

The podcast this goes on to say that it would be perfectly normal and in accordance with the rules to say that creatures know the locations of everyone unless they hide, invisible or not.

I mean, you guy really want to say you've discovered my position (and @iserith's, and @Hriston's) and decided it vindicates you, I guess that this is a successful thread. The normal is you know where an invisible creature is, but special circumstances could arise where a GM might decide differently. Excellent well done.

But the point stands. It's the DM's call. The threshold may vary, but the DM makes the ruling. Which is all I've ever said.

 

[Ovinomancer]

But the point stands. It's the DM's call. The threshold may vary, but the DM makes the ruling. Which is all I've ever said.

It's the GM's call if special circumstances are in play. The normal is that you know the location of the invisible creature.

 

[Flamestrike]

For anyone that hasn't listened to the podcast, this "slamdunk" that was found was an example where a GM could say that a group of orcs might lose track of an invisible mage in a situation where a barbarian was attacking them while screaming and a rogue had set off some kegs of gunpowder nearby. In other words, absolutely nothing different from what the rest of us have been saying -- in special circumstances, it's a GM's call.

Exactly, a DM can in extreme outliers, make the call that they're Hidden even without them taking the Hide action.

Otherwise, you need to take the Hide action to be Hidden, invisible or not.

Im not seeing an invisible creature simply dashing away from a creature to be such an outlier that would enliven me to handwaive the need for a Stealth check via the Hide action.

I would simply tell the Monk, 'If you want to be hidden now you're 100' away you can certainly attempt that on your next turn via the Hide action when you actually get 100' away and can again take actions. You can have advantage on your Stealth check due to the distance.'

 

[Ovinomancer]

Exactly, a DM can in extreme outliers, make the call that they're Hidden even without them taking the Hide action.

Otherwise, you need to take the Hide action to be Hidden, invisible or not.

Im not seeing an invisible creature simply dashing away from a creature to be such an outlier that would enliven me to handwaive the need for a Stealth check via the Hide action.

I would simply tell the Monk, 'If you want to be hidden now you're 100' away you can certainly attempt that on your next turn via the Hide action when you actually get 100' away and can again take actions. You can have advantage on your Stealth check due to the distance.'

I disagree it has to be extreme, but it needs to be more that just being invisible.

 

[Flamestrike]

But the point stands. It's the DM's call. The threshold may vary, but the DM makes the ruling. Which is all I've ever said.

We're in agreement then.

Where we disagree is the threshold.

A faerie hovering quietly and observing a battle near a raging waterfall 200' away? Outlier, automatically hidden, don't bother rolling, cant be found.

A creature attacking another creature while invisible and then sprinting away? Not hidden, not an outlier, will need to make a Stealth check to hide via the Hide action, or that creature can attack them (with disadvantage, no targeted spells or special abilities etc) and it has a very very rough idea where the invisible creature is.

 

[Maxperson]

Why is it impossible? Your example keeps getting more elaborate, and you seem to have assumptions about the situation that aren’t apparent to me. There’s nothing impossible about someone moving to block a door as you enter a room to prevent you from leaving, so you’ll have to explain why that’s the case in this particular situation.

My example has remained static, except for your request for the reason the PC walked in. And it's impossible without the PC falling, badly spraining an ankle, or the like which didn't happen, because D&D rules.

 

[Flamestrike]

I disagree it has to be extreme, but it needs to be more that just being invisible.

Mearls gave the example of multiple nearby barrels of gunpowder exploding and having someone scream in your face while trying to kill you.

And even then it was a 'maybe'.

 

[Oofta]

It's the GM's call if special circumstances are in play. The normal is that you know the location of the invisible creature.

Some people have repeatedly stated that the rule is that you always know where the invisible creature is unless they've made a successful stealth check. That's not true.

It's up to the DM to make the call. Just like it's up to the DM to decide when a stealth check is possible.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Mearls gave the example of multiple nearby barrels of gunpowder exploding and having someone scream in your face while trying to kill you.

And even then it was a 'maybe'.

Yup, I don't think that example was a threshold, but a solid example of in the area a GM could make such a call. The "line," blurry as it is, starts sooner. I don't think it's far enough back to say "I ran 100' in this round and that's enough," though. If, by next round, no one has followed and the monk runs again, I'm cool with that. But, in one round, getting off an attack routine and running away? Nah, no sufficient enough on it's own. If your plan is to do this and be hidden in the same round, get your rogue friend to blow something up, or something.