D&D General Unpopular Opinion?: D&D is a terrible venue for horror

[Dire Bare]

There is at least one horror scene in Jackson's LotR movies. It's no coincidence that it involves only the weakest protagonists - the hobbits, the undead-like Nazgul, and no combat.

That scene was terrifying! I jumped out of my seat in the theater first time I saw the film. Still gives me goosebumps.

I find it kinda funny that folks are dismissing this great example because LotR isn't horror from beginning-to-end.

There are other scenes from the movies (and the books) that if played just a bit differently, would have been just as terrifying or more than the hobbits first encounter with the Nazgul.

 

[Oofta]

I also wonder - what is the typical length of "horror" campaigns? In my experience horror is extra flavor I add to my campaign here and there with the occasional focus on horror session or two. Kind of the spice to the soup, but nothing I could see playing for a year or more like most of my D&D campaigns. After a while, either the PC is eliminated or the most horrific things just become mundane.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well, defining horror is a bit tricky isn't it? Just look at the genres of movies that fall under the horror umbrella. It's a really big category, so I'm not sure there is an answer. Some games focus on horror exclusively, but can't do anything else. I'm not saying D&D is the best fit (and maybe not for long running horror theme).

This is a very good point! Genre definitions are fuzzy and have a lot to do with subjective evaluations. A lot of things get labeled horror that don’t really fit what I would consider horror personally, but there are no hard and fast rules.

What specific aspects can't D&D do?

That’s difficult to answer in specifics, because again, genre definitions resist being nailed down. To me though, D&D is too fundamentally structured around overcoming individual micro-challenges to work well for horror. Horror to me is fundamentally a cathartic genre. It’s appeal is in allowing the audience to vicariously experience fear, pain, and loss through the characters in a safe context. Could you do that with D&D? Sure, but I think you would have to fight with the game’s design to pull it off; meanwhile there are other systems out there that are built more specifically to accommodate that kind of experience.

 

[Charlaquin]

It's funny that Alien was brought up as a horror movie because I think of it more as a creature feature.

Creature Feature is a subtype of horror, isn’t it?

But anyway, was Aliens a horror movie? I mean, everybody but Ripley sent to the planet (well and token idiot management guy) were trained soldiers at least theoretically well suited to the task.

I think it just upped the ante by showing that even the well trained marines were chewed up by the enemy. It took more enemies than in the first movie, but the result was the same.

I would say no. Aliens is primarily an action movie, with some light horror elements.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

The scene where Gimli ventures into the Paths of the Dead, fear threatening to overtake him, the oppressive darkness and who-knows-what lurking all about, springs to mind. The only time we see Gimli's courage falter, underground of all places, and we feel that same fear reading it.

Of course, because Peter Jackson is not always the most subtle of filmmakers, we didn't get that in the movies, and Gimli's terror was played for laughs.

There are other scenes from the movies (and the books) that if played just a bit differently, would have been just as terrifying or more than the hobbits first encounter with the Nazgul.

 

[Reynard]

The scene where Gimli ventures into the Paths of the Dead, fear threatening to overtake him, the oppressive darkness and who-knows-what lurking all about, springs to mind. The only time we see Gimli's courage falter, underground of all places, and we feel that same fear reading it.

Of course, because Peter Jackson is not always the most subtle of filmmakers, we didn't get that in the movies, and Gimli's terror was played for laughs.

This is an example of a thing D&D can't do -- at least, there's no mechanism for it. of course the PLAYER can decide to role play this situation based on the DM's creepy description, but we can dismiss that because any player in any game can do that. D&D's core suppositions make this a poor way to play a dwarf that is more likely to irritate your party members that earn you a table Oscar.

 

[Oofta]

This is an example of a thing D&D can't do -- at least, there's no mechanism for it. of course the PLAYER can decide to role play this situation based on the DM's creepy description, but we can dismiss that because any player in any game can do that. D&D's core suppositions make this a poor way to play a dwarf that is more likely to irritate your party members that earn you a table Oscar.

But how much difference does it make? D&D has a frightened condition, but it's just mechanical. What kind of mechanic can you implement that would affect the player?

Because (and maybe I'm just totally missing the boat) so far other games work "better" for horror because people identify more with their PCs. If a player is not going to get into that mindset, I have a hard time imagining how game rules or lack therein is going to matter.

 

[TheSword]

I’ve been heavily inspired by the games of Sekiro and Bloodborne that I’ve played recently.

Neither of these games allow for character death or characters to lose equipment. Yes they still manage to convey the horror theme in bucketfuls.

Horror themes that they use in varying degrees in one or both games...

• Corruption of body
• Corruption of ideals
• Possession
• Dismemberment
• Malign hidden forces all around you that you can’t see
• All narrators are unreliable
• All truth is subjective
• Hints of knowledge never the full picture
• All organisations are either corrupted from within or tainted in some way. E.g fanaticism or corrupt methods.
• People who genuinely appear trustworthy and helpful, aren’t.
• Everyone else you meet is paranoid, superstitious, or desperate.
• Innocence is fragile, rare and coveted
• What appear to be boons come with hidden costs, that can affect other people.
• Recognizable and generally trusted institutions hospitals, churches are some of the worst offenders.
• The worst monsters were once (or still are) human.
• Transformation is common and hideous.
• Knowledge leads To power which leads inexorably to corruption.
• Alien is more common than simply magic
• Boses that test players to their limits with new and unique abilities are common and spaced frequently between normal fights. Even normal fights can be dangerous and can quickly escalate.
• The things that take for granted as good and benign are anything but.

These are just a few things that I’ve identified as being particularly cool and evoke the genre.

I don’t see any of these things as being incompatible with the D&D 5e. In fact, bounded accuracy makes some of these things easier.

 

[TheSword]

Regarding the mechanics, there are some important things.

- I think it is essential to maximize the capabilities of monsters. Don’t have a basilisk in a 30ft x 30ft room... put it in a hall of mirrors.

- Monster abilities should be changed liberally, ideally in ways unexpected.

- Magic items should either be tainted in some way, come with a cost, or be of limited use.

- Protections that come without cost should be extremely rare.

- Prevent multiclassing... make your bed then lie in it. Don’t allow cherry picking.

- Immunity is more emotionally powerful than resistance.

- Damage players in ways other than a replenishing HP total.

- Exclude feats like Alertness. That remove suspense.

- Liberally use conditions that allow a player to act but hampered in some way. Avoid conditions that shut characters down. Having to flee an enemy when wading through difficult terrain is scary, being paralyzed and attacked is just annoying.

- Make choices matter more than dice rolls.

All these are possible in 5e, though some creativity as per the DMG is required.

 

[Charlaquin]

But how much difference does it make? D&D has a frightened condition, but it's just mechanical. What kind of mechanic can you implement that would affect the player?

Because (and maybe I'm just totally missing the boat) so far other games work "better" for horror because people identify more with their PCs. If a player is not going to get into that mindset, I have a hard time imagining how game rules or lack therein is going to matter.

I don’t think it’s a matter of having a mechanic to reinforce the characters’ fear, but rather having a mechanical framework that facilitates making the player fear for their character (and not necessarily for the character’s life, though that can be one way to do it.)

There’s this Horror RPG called Dread. Its core mechanic is a legally-distinct-from-jenga block tower, which is used in place of dice for action resolution. When you declare an action that involves an element of risk, the GM can ask you to take a block from the tower. If the tower remains standing, you succeed. If the tower falls, your character dies. And that’s basically it, there’s not much more to the game mechanically than that. The DM narrates a scenario, the players roleplay their characters, and when asked to do so, they pull blocks from the tower.

At first, it’s pretty low-risk - you do a thing, you pull a block, you move on. but as the game goes on, the tension builds and builds as every move you make leaves the tower a little more unstable. Every successful action makes the next action more likely to be the one that knocks it down. You go into the game expecting your character probably won’t survive the session, so it’s not like you’re particularly attached to the character. But the game’s core mechanic takes the narrative tension and makes it viscerally, physically real. You can’t help but feel the rush of adrenaline pulling another block from that already barely-standing tower, and that sensation gets you in the right mood for the cathartic horror experience.

That’s just one example of a game with a mechanical framework that is built to facilitate horror, but I think it demonstrates that what’s needed to make horror work is a dissolution of the barrier between the character’s emotional state and the player’s emotional state. If you’re just describing your character being scared or rolling dice with some penalty or other to represent the character’s fear, you’re not getting the catharsis that horror is meant to deliver. You have to feel the character’s fear, and for that to work you need a game system that facilitates getting the player into the character’s head space. That’s part of why a lot of horror games are really big on props.