D&D 5E Eldritch spear + spellsniper + distant spell

[Paul Farquhar]

Why? a vision of normal human is 5 mile. If the sorlock has flight speed, It's easy to do.

A vision of a normal human is a lot more than 5 miles - ever looked at the stars?

However, how far away you can see a target depends on how big the target is.

 

[Hohige]

Do you go hunting? Trying to hit anything beyond 600 feet in a forest is really hard. Even snipers need a pointer/helper and scope at great distance. At least an EB does not care about the wind...

The 5e player's handbook does not have rules on visibility, but the DMG does. They can be found on page 243, under the "Visibility Outdoors" heading.

The basic summary of it is that, on a clear day, you can see 2 miles, or until your view is obscured by terrain features. If it's raining, it usually cuts it down to 1 mile. Fog cuts it down to 100 to 300 feet. And standing on a mountain or similarly elevated place will give you a visibility of 40 miles. For comparison, the horizon on earth is 2.9 miles away at ground level.


If the Sorlock is flying... his visibility is 40 miles.

 

[Ovinomancer]

While I understand your logic, I have to disagree. In 5E, if two effects have the same result, but different names, the effects stack unless it is explicitly stated otherwise.

Personally, I agree 600 feet is MORE than sufficient, but I wouldn't stop a player from getting 1200 feet if they also want to invest a metamagic and spend a sorcery point for the shot. shrug

Yes, the effect stack -- distant spell doubles the spells range and spell sniper doubles the spells range. The spell's range is always 300ft for purposes of the abilities -- it doesn't go from 300ft to 600ft with the application of one because the effect doesn't change the spell's range. So, you either have effect one that results in a 600ft range and effect two which also results in a 600ft range -- neither is better so pick one. OR, you have effect one which adds 300ft of range and effect two which also adds 300ft of range, so they combine for a total of 900ft of range. Effects stacking doesn't mean they amplify each other.

Look to the movement rules for further examples -- a terrain effect that doubles the movement cost per foot stacks with a spell effect that also doubles the movement cost per foot, but it doesn't result in a x4 modifier, it results in a x3 one. They add together, they don't multiply each other.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yes, the effect stack -- distant spell doubles the spells range and spell sniper doubles the spells range. The spell's range is always 300ft for purposes of the abilities -- it doesn't go from 300ft to 600ft with the application of one because the effect doesn't change the spell's range. So, you either have effect one that results in a 600ft range and effect two which also results in a 600ft range -- neither is better so pick one. OR, you have effect one which adds 300ft of range and effect two which also adds 300ft of range, so they combine for a total of 900ft of range. Effects stacking doesn't mean they amplify each other.

900 feet? 1200 feet? Personally, I don't care. As I said, anything past 600 feet is gravy and IME a waste of resources to even attempt to achieve. Warlocks who take Spell Sniper more often do it to ignore cover than for the range bonus if they already have Eldritch Spear. My own sorlock didn't bother with Eldritch Spear once I had Spell Sniper--240 feet was more than sufficient for me anyway.

Look to the movement rules for further examples -- a terrain effect that doubles the movement cost per foot stacks with a spell effect that also doubles the movement cost per foot, but it doesn't result in a x4 modifier, it results in a x3 one. They add together, they don't multiply each other.

Those specifically costs 1 additional foot per foot moved, not "double" the movement (effectively, halving your speed). If you care to elaborate with a more concrete example, we can discuss it but IMO it is not the same as the focus of this thread.

 

[BluejayJunior]

Yes, the effect stack -- distant spell doubles the spells range and spell sniper doubles the spells range. The spell's range is always 300ft for purposes of the abilities -- it doesn't go from 300ft to 600ft with the application of one because the effect doesn't change the spell's range. So, you either have effect one that results in a 600ft range and effect two which also results in a 600ft range -- neither is better so pick one. OR, you have effect one which adds 300ft of range and effect two which also adds 300ft of range, so they combine for a total of 900ft of range. Effects stacking doesn't mean they amplify each other.

Look to the movement rules for further examples -- a terrain effect that doubles the movement cost per foot stacks with a spell effect that also doubles the movement cost per foot, but it doesn't result in a x4 modifier, it results in a x3 one. They add together, they don't multiply each other.

It says that it doubles the range, How does that not change the spell's range? I am not aware of a rule that says change the range of something does not change it's range.
And then how is that any different from eldritch spear changing the range to 300ft? How do those two things stack if changing a spell's range doesn't actually change the range? By your logic, you would choose either the 300ft from eldrtich spear or the 60 ft (30 doubled) from spell sniper.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The 5e player's handbook does not have rules on visibility, but the DMG does. They can be found on page 243, under the "Visibility Outdoors" heading.

I know, but those rules are nonsense.

The basic summary of it is that, on a clear day, you can see 2 miles, or until your view is obscured by terrain features. If it's raining, it usually cuts it down to 1 mile. Fog cuts it down to 100 to 300 feet. And standing on a mountain or similarly elevated place will give you a visibility of 40 miles. For comparison, the horizon on earth is 2.9 miles away at ground level.


If the Sorlock is flying... his visibility is 40 miles.

See what exactly? A house, an elephant? a person? a fly?

 

[Ovinomancer]

It says that it doubles the range, How does that not change the spell's range? I am not aware of a rule that says change the range of something does not change it's range.
And then how is that any different from eldritch spear changing the range to 300ft? How do those two things stack if changing a spell's range doesn't actually change the range? By your logic, you would choose either the 300ft from eldrtich spear or the 60 ft (30 doubled) from spell sniper.

The second ability doesn't check the first ability, it checks the spell. The range of the spell is still 300ft (with ES). When you have two abilities operating on the same thing, you generally will take the greater of the two. Alternatively, if two things are operating on the same thing, they are additive. There are no multiplicative functions in 5e - effects do not multiply each other.

 

[Horwath]

wow, that 1 in 100 attacks that could be done at 1200ft...truly game breaking...

 

[Ovinomancer]

wow, that 1 in 100 attacks that could be done at 1200ft...truly game breaking...

It's usually not going to be a problem at all, but that's not the point, the point was asking how the rules work. If you want to have 1200' EBs, go ahead, I don't think it will break anything unless you let it. Warlocks sniping defenders off of walls at double longbow range with zero penalties for the extreme range or the cover provided the defenders seems like something every single army would want as many of as they can get, though. I could see a country or power setting up a pathway to empower a patron by getting as many warlocks with this combo up and running as possible (it's a pretty early combo set-up -- level 5 with variant humans who could do it 11 times a day, each.

EDIT: oh, wait, you'd have to be at least 6th to pull this off -- you'd need 4 levels in sorcerer to get the ABI, so 2 Warlock for EB and ES, then 4 Sorcerer for Distant spell, sorcery points, and the ABI. That's less easy to get to. Still, a few of those would be great for sniping defenders during a siege.

 

[BluejayJunior]

The second ability doesn't check the first ability, it checks the spell. The range of the spell is still 300ft (with ES). When you have two abilities operating on the same thing, you generally will take the greater of the two. Alternatively, if two things are operating on the same thing, they are additive. There are no multiplicative functions in 5e - effects do not multiply each other.

Where are the rules for that interpretation? I am not aware of a rule that says take the greater of two options if they both affect the same thing or that things that multiply are additive.