D&D 5E Should the Hexblade Patron be Banned?

[Flamestrike]

It is a big deal, but it's only one pillar. An important pillar, certainly, since being dead means you can't do the other two. But the general assumption of the game is winning most battles, since that's the way the attrition model works. So being able to impact multiple pillars is more valuable on average.

I get that but were talking about delaying Paladin here (simply to get Cha to hit, reduce MAD and open up elven accuracy).

Youre delaying SO much there. Cha to saves, extra attack, spellcasting, improved divine smite etc for 1-3 levels.

 

[Seramus]

I get that but were talking about delaying Paladin here (simply to get Cha to hit, reduce MAD and open up elven accuracy).

I'm talking about:

I've lost track of the amount of players that fell into the Sor-lock M/C trap, and spent the rest of the campaign looking over enviously at the single classed Wizard or Sorcerer getting access to the really good spells a level (or two) earlier (which is several sessions earlier in actual play).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I'm not even taking extra attack. I'm making wishes and turning into dragons.

Not wrong. But beside the point.
You answered specifically to a 1 level dip suggestion that told about delaying extra attack. If you are taking only levels in a spellcasting class, then it is comparing apples with oranges.

 

[Seramus]

You answered specifically to a 1 level dip suggestion that told about delaying extra attack. If you are taking only levels in a spellcasting class, then it is comparing apples with oranges.

See my post above yours.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

See my post above yours.

Saw it after I posted. Then I can make no sense of what you wanted to tell us then, because Flamestrike was pretty clear that he was speaking about delaying a single class by multiclassing and that he usually considers it underpowered compared to the single class. In the part you now quoted, he explicitely stated that delaying the sorcerer levels is usually not worth it, which we both seem to agree with.

 

[Seramus]

Saw it after I posted. Then I can make no sense of what you wanted to tell us then, because Flamestrike was pretty clear that he was speaking about delaying a single class by multiclassing and that he usually considers it underpowered compared to the single class. In the part you now quoted, he explicitely stated that delaying the sorcerer levels is usually not worth it, which we both seem to agree with.

I'll try to explain. Sorry if I misgender anyone:

Flamestrike posts about MC casters being envious of single class casters.
I agree with his post.
Flamestrike says martial characters have the same problem, when they delay extra attack.
I joke about delaying spellcasting being a bigger loss than delaying extra attack.
You talk about delaying extra attack by 5 levels.
I joke (again) about delaying spellcasting being a bigger loss than delaying extra attack.
Flamestrike says extra attack is a big deal (for martials) because it's an exponential increase in DPR.
I argue that damage is less impactful than spellcasting, because spellcasting is effective across multiple pillars.
Flamestrike says he's talking about delaying paladins with a one level dip.
I try to clarify what I'm talking about (MC casters being envious of single class casters, etc)
You said I was answering a conversation about paladin multiclassing.
I link to where I clarify what I'm talking about (MC casters being envious of single class casters, etc).
You say you don't understand what I'm talking about.
I write this post to explain what I have been talking about.

Hope that helps!

 

[billd91]

To be fair extra attack is a massive deal. It's an exponential increase in DPR.

Let's not oversell it. It's a linear increase. One extra attack doubles your DPR. Two extra attacks triple it. That's linear.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I'll try to explain. Sorry if I misgender anyone:

Flamestrike posts about MC casters being envious of single class casters.
I agree with his post.
Flamestrike says martial characters have the same problem, when they delay extra attack.
I joke about delaying spellcasting being a bigger loss than delaying extra attack.
You talk about delaying extra attack by 5 levels.
I joke (again) about delaying spellcasting being a bigger loss than delaying extra attack.
Flamestrike says extra attack is a big deal (for martials) because it's an exponential increase in DPR.
I argue that damage is less impactful than spellcasting, because spellcasting is effective across multiple pillars.
Flamestrike says he's talking about delaying paladins with a one level dip.
I try to clarify what I'm talking about (MC casters being envious of single class casters, etc)
You said I was answering a conversation about paladin multiclassing.
I link to where I clarify what I'm talking about (MC casters being envious of single class casters, etc).
You say you don't understand what I'm talking about.
I write this post to explain what I have been talking about.

Hope that helps!

Ok. I didn't get that you were joking.
That explains a lot.

 

[Seramus]

Ok. I didn't get that you were joking.
That explains a lot.

Well, I certainly believe the things I said to be true. But the method of delivery was intended to be comedic.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Well, I certainly believe the things I said to be true. But the method of delivery was intended to be comedic.

As I said, i do agree with the facts you presented. I just needed a little help to follow your line of thought. The snippets you quoted were of no help. The summary was.