D&D 5E Getting rid of bad skill proficiencies

[Oofta]

I'll have to review. It has been so long since I cracked open that part of the book. I have been doing it since always so I never bothered to look. That doesn't really explain vets though. Either way, thanks.

Hmm. Went to double check the wording and it is technically a variant rule. PHB > Chapter 7: Using Ability Scores > Variant: Skills with Different Abilities.

...when your half-orc barbarian uses a display of raw strength to intimidate an enemy, your DM might ask for a Strength (Intimidation) check, even though Intimidation is normally associated with Charisma.​

I've always used it and so have all of the DMs I've played with. Still a good thing to point out.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I am so sick of Intimidation being only charisma. That bulky dude with the massive club isn't scary because he can give a speech, he's scary because he can knock my brains out and eat a sandwich over my corpse like it was another Tuesday.

Why would I be scared of a bulky dude with a club? The really scary guys are the quick guy with a knife and the unarmored guy who can blast me into oblivion. I think Intimidate should be based on Dex, Int and Cha (for sorcerers and warlocks), not Str.

 

[Oofta]

Why would I be scared of a bulky dude with a club? The really scary guys are the quick guy with a knife and the unarmored guy who can blast me into oblivion. I think Intimidate should be based on Dex, Int and Cha (for sorcerers and warlocks), not Str.

Depends on the situation and the target for me. I've let wizards intimidate other wizards with their grasp of the arcane, clerics make persuasive checks using wisdom and so on. On the other hand, a lot of people don't care how smart you are and couldn't follow along in any case. A wizard using intelligence on intimidate with an average barbarian might be at disadvantage with a reply something along the lines of "Stick man do lots of talkie-talk but Brog not care."

 

[Gradine]

Every time WotC merges and/or removes skills from the list, a baby angel loses its wings (okay, except for Stealth & Perception)

Skill systems do not need to perfectly balanced. They're as much about describing character as gameplay.

Bring back Profession skills, you cowards

 

[tetrasodium]

It is "RAW" to substitute a different ability. You may just have to point it out to new DMs.

Not quite

so far so good this is a significant departure from the past, I can't wait to read more about it on the following pages!

Spoiler: oh wait... no we changed our mind

wotc just couldn't let go or even pick a direction so there is this muddled both but no matter what the gm wants to use they can expect the other to add confusion & weigh down their attempts to shift player mindsets & vice versa for a player who has a preference different from a gm doing it wrong because wotc made a "variant" rule that is pretty much literally the raw rule on the prior page.

 

[Gradine]

More seriously, I can't say I agree with most of what you say. Though I'm totally down for renaming and broadening History.

The Nature/Survival dichotomy is one that I see a lot, and it's very wrong. Nature is clearly about academic knowledge (thus Int) and Survival is all about practical, intuitive skills (thus Wis). This is the same issue I have with people who insist Religion and Nature should be Wis based for the poor, poor Clerics and Druids. Knowledge-based skills are about what kinds of information and trivia you have kicking around in your head. "B-b-but shouldn't clerics know all about their own religious beliefs/rituals?" Yes, of course, why should they need to roll for that?

The problem with the talky skills and the physical skills is that DMs can't be bothered to think about how each one would be more or less effective in a given situation and make mechanical adjustments accordingly. "Sure, you can try to just muscle through, but you'll have disadvantage on that Athletics roll. Or, you could try..." Problem solved.

 

[Istbor]

Why would I be scared of a bulky dude with a club? The really scary guys are the quick guy with a knife and the unarmored guy who can blast me into oblivion. I think Intimidate should be based on Dex, Int and Cha (for sorcerers and warlocks), not Str.

You mistake me. I don't think it should be based on ANY one stat. I think that whatever makes the character scary, whether that be their mastery of the arcane, their dexterity with a blade, or the tone of their voice. Strength was just my example, as typically for most classes that value a high Str, don't value a high Cha.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Could a mod perhaps merge this and the duplicate thread? Both have replies now so it is confusing...

 

[Oofta]

Not quite
View attachment 128650
so far so good this is a significant departure from the past, I can't wait to read more about it on the following pages!

Spoiler: oh wait... no we changed our mind

View attachment 128651

wotc just couldn't let go or even pick a direction so there is this muddled both but no matter what the gm wants to use they can expect the other to add confusion & weigh down their attempts to shift player mindsets & vice versa for a player who has a preference different from a gm doing it wrong because wotc made a "variant" rule that is pretty much literally the raw rule on the prior page.

Ability checks and skills are separate things. Sometimes proficiency in a skill comes into play sometimes it doesn't.

If proficiency does not matter, the DM chooses the ability score to use for the check. On the other hand if skill proficiency does matter the variant rule qualifies that the default ability bonus can be changed to a different ability bonus.

There is no conflict.

 

[Laurefindel]

I am so sick of Intimidation being only charisma. That bulky dude with the massive club isn't scary because he can give a speech, he's scary because he can knock my brains out and eat a sandwich over my corpse like it was another Tuesday.

Intimidation is about making a (strong) impression, which is under the purview of charisma. You can make an impression by giving a creepy speech, or by looming ominously with your cudgel implying you'll knock their brains out; your pick, but it's still charisma.

It still shouldn't prevent your half-orc from basing an impression on a demonstration of force and use Strength instead (and DMs should go along with that), but by RAW Charisma isn't only about speaking properly or looking pretty. Otherwise, demons wouldn't have sky-high charisma scores...