D&D 5E Bladesinger with a staff

[UngeheuerLich]

The difference is song of victory and the free hand.

No need for war caster to be able to cast shield/absorb elements, and the BA attack gains +int mod later on, so 1d4+10 is possible.

That isn't the same thing at all as an offhand shortsword.

If you replace PAM with warcaster it becomes mire or less the same.
Those few points of damage are more or less irrelevant at that point.
(we speak about 2d8+10 +1d4+10 vs 2d6+10 vs 1d6+5)
The difference is what you rate higher:
An extra attack of opportunity or the ability to use BB or GFB during an opportunity attack and advantage on concentration checks.
If you are set on using haste, I would really hate to lose concentration, because if you lose it, you have serious problems.

 

[TheSword]

Nailed it! Well done...

This is for Rime of the Frostmaiden so my sign is vital, my hands are cold.

 

[ph0rk]

If you replace PAM with warcaster it becomes mire or less the same.

No, it doesn't - they aren't getting a 1d8 weapon in their main hand and they are getting 1d6 + int for their offhand instead of 1d4+ dex+int for the BA attack. 8.5 is less than 12.5.

Further, the staff may serve as an arcane focus - war caster with both hands full doesn't let them cast anything with material components; but allowing a dexified PAM quarterstaff does. (Even if it doesn't serve as a focus, they have a hand free to use one).

I think I agree with you in principle, the feat probably does need to be limited to 1 handed weapons.

However, my counter argument is this feat is balanced out by the fact that it is a feat and the character is therefore paying a price for it, they have to give up an ASI or give up an opportunity to pick a different feat. Yes a Variant Human can get it at 1st level, but if they are using a great weapon, GWM is a better choice (?), if they choose GWM and take Weapon Dancer at 4th level, then they are giving up a chance to increase an attribute by 2 or giving up another feat that might be more useful in the long run, like Toughness. Considering most campaign go to 12th level or so, the opportunities for ASI and feats are rather limited, so I think this would not change most builds in any meaningful way.

I do think limiting the weapon choices to melee weapons that can be used one handed, is probably a good idea though, it does keep some of the weirdness in check.

I specified the heavy property - that's something a bit different than two-handed, though I think the greatclub is the only melee weapon with the two handed property that does not also have the heavy property.

Yes, they spend a feat to get this, but the synergy with PAM is strong, and for some builds that already prize dex highly, it offers a marked damage upgrade to them.

Many campaigns only go to 12th, but people can build characters to make use of broken stuff much earlier than that.

Pairing PAM with a glaive being tied to strength is one of the few advantages of strength in this edition; a feat that removes that advantage will have various unforeseen balance effects, most of them not good.

 

[NotAYakk]

I think I agree with you in principle, the feat probably does need to be limited to 1 handed weapons.

However, my counter argument is this feat is balanced out by the fact that it is a feat and the character is therefore paying a price for it, they have to give up an ASI or give up an opportunity to pick a different feat. Yes a Variant Human can get it at 1st level, but if they are using a great weapon, GWM is a better choice (?), if they choose GWM and take Weapon Dancer at 4th level, then they are giving up a chance to increase an attribute by 2 or giving up another feat that might be more useful in the long run, like Toughness. Considering most campaign go to 12th level or so, the opportunities for ASI and feats are rather limited, so I think this would not change most builds in any meaningful way.

I do think limiting the weapon choices to melee weapons that can be used one handed, is probably a good idea though, it does keep some of the weirdness in check.

Sure, but I'd push for something else instead.

+ 1 dex
1 handed melee weapon is finesse
Something else.

Bonus action attack?

Riposte?

Bonus action defensive stance with riposte?

Bonus action help on a target you attack?

 

[Zsong]

Ehh. It opens up Dex-based GWM, I guess, which might be problematic if you're worried about protecting Str's niche. I'm not sure what ranged weapon that isn't already finesse would be problematic.

Place a limitation that it only works for single class wizards.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

No, it doesn't - they aren't getting a 1d8 weapon in their main hand and they are getting 1d6 + int for their offhand instead of 1d4+ dex+int for the BA attack. 8.5 is less than 12.5.

Further, the staff may serve as an arcane focus - war caster with both hands full doesn't let them cast anything with material components; but allowing a dexified PAM quarterstaff does. (Even if it doesn't serve as a focus, they have a hand free to use one).

yeah... 4 points at that level (conidering 100% hit chance really ake all the difference). It falls well within more or less the same.
To spell focus: Rub of the war mage or spell of wizardry solve your problems (common magiv items).
Then you probably will find more magic short swords than sticks... There are 2 very rare staffs though: staff of striking and staff of power. That might be the only time when a balance concern might arouse. On the other hand most wizards can´t really use the staff, so just maybe I see thase as an edge case where your investment really pays off.
If I ever got hands at such a staff, I´d really consider 1 level of monk. Also I would not see balance issues with a monk multiclass feat that gives you monk level 1 martial arts.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

What's next, dexterity grappling?

No, but I can see DEX carrying capacity.

I call this feat "Juggler"

• +1 Dexterity
• As long, as you have 5ft above you, and until your concentration is broken (as if concentrating on a spell), you can use DEX instead of Str, when determining your carrying capacity.
• as long as you concentrate, you can draw light thrown weapons without spending an action.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Place a limitation that it only works for single class wizards.

As long as you wear a pointy hat, you can add the finesse property to a one handed melee weapon you carry.

 

[TheSword]

As long as you wear a pointy hat, you can add the finesse property to a one handed melee weapon you carry.

As long as your staff has a knob on the end like all good wizards then you’re fine!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Fair enough. Similarly, though, saying something is boring does not equate to it being bad. Neither of you was gatekeeping.

Referring to another playstyle as lazy, boring, unimaginative, and uncreative, is gatekeeping.