D&D 5E Everyone Should Play Custom Lineage by Default

[Mistwell]

I think part of the problem is, people take DnD far more seriously than others. All I know is that if a player wanted to use custom lineage to build their elven archer I'd be fine with it. I won't even be houseruling anything, I'll be using a reasonable interpretation of the rules and I won't worry about what a book that came out a couple of years ago says about which book Xanathar's says the racial feats are restricted to.

That's fine. I don't think it's a matter of "taking things seriously" rather than "different view on how the rules work". I don't think anyone is suggesting it's unfair for someone to interpret the rules the ways you are. I think people are objecting to the "Everyone should do it the way I think it should be done" approach. Which is what this thread theme suggested, and then Flamestrike seems to have cranked the volume up to 11 on that theme so far that even the original poster thinks it's too much.

 

[Azzy]

Yes to this. And I do believe it is quite reasonable.

Here is the language from the Tasha's sidebar entitled "Custom Lineage":
"Instead of choosing one of the game's races for your character at 1st level..."

The player is choosing to pick a completely new race instead of choosing one those that are already in the game.

Appearance and resemblance to kin are fluff.

Case in point: Elves and Half-elves logically have a shared lineage and resemble one another, but are treated differently for feats: Elven Accuracy vs Prodigy vs Revenant Blade.

I think you (and several others) are trying to rules lawyer and appeal to RAW something that exists (and can only be used) at the DM's fiat. Which is to say, you lot are to trying to define how individual DMs should use custom lineages at their tables based on torturing the paucity of rules that exist for them and then reading into the bloody remains. It's absolutely absurd—it's up do individual DMs to decide how to use these (woefully inadequate) rules—there is no "correct" interpretation that is the baseline. It's all wind in sails.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I think you (and several others) are trying to rules lawyer and appeal to RAW something that exists (and can only be used) at the DM's fiat. Which is to say, you lot are to trying to define how individual DMs should use custom lineages at their tables based on torturing the paucity of rules that exist for them and then reading into the bloody remains. It's absolutely absurd—it's up do individual DMs to decide how to use these (woefully inadequate) rules—there is no "correct" interpretation that is the baseline. It's all wind in sails.

I'm sorry, but I feel you think wrongly. Of course a DM is able to run their table however they want and I have no problem with that. I find it hard to believe anyone here is telling anyone else how to run the game at their table. It's more like: "Hey fellow gamer, I feel your interpretation of these optional plain language rules is off base. Not gonna fly at our table but hope it is fun for your table all the same." Then, occasionally, certain people get riled up if their way of playing (or desired way of playing) is seen as House Rules by others and then seem to be arguing for a creative reading of the rules to be able to proclaim they are really playing RAW. So, yeah, I see how both "sides" might believe that the interpretation of the other is tortured.

Reading RAW is hardly rules lawyering, either. Pejorative forgiven in light of your faulty assumption.

 

[Azzy]

I'm sorry, but I feel you think wrongly. Of course a DM is able to run their table however they want and I have no problem with that. I find it hard to believe anyone here is telling anyone else how to run the game at their table. It's more like: "Hey fellow gamer, I feel your interpretation of these optional plain language rules is off base. Not gonna fly at our table but hope it is fun for your table all the same." Then, occasionally, certain people get riled up if their way of playing (or desired way of playing) is seen as House Rules by others and then seem to be arguing for a creative reading of the rules to be able to proclaim they are really playing RAW. So, yeah, I see how both "sides" might believe that the interpretation of the other is tortured.

Reading RAW is hardly rules lawyering, either. Pejorative forgiven in light of your faulty assumption.

The thing is, I don't believe there is enough rules involved with the custom lineage rules to hang a RAW interpretation upon (much less one that could be taken seriously). I think both sides are making groundless assumptions about these rules. These rules exist for DMs to do with what they please. The whole argument is ridiculous.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

The thing is, I don't believe there is enough rules involved with the custom lineage rules to hang a RAW interpretation upon (much less one that could be taken seriously). I think both sides are making groundless assumptions about these rules. These rules exist for DMs to do with what they please.

The middle path! Then again, one might wonder why print rules at all? Just let DMs do what they please. I guess Wizards wouldn't get their $49.95 SRP if they didn't print anything.

The whole argument is ridiculous.

Of course, we are literally arguing about pretend elves* so... you are correct.



*See what I did there (without realizing it when I was typing mind you)? Custom lineage elves = pretend elves. {mike drop}

 

[squibbles]

Of course a DM is able to run their table however they want and I have no problem with that. I find it hard to believe anyone here is telling anyone else how to run the game at their table. It's more like: "Hey fellow gamer, I feel your interpretation of these optional plain language rules is off base. Not gonna fly at our table but hope it is fun for your table all the same." Then, occasionally, certain people get riled up if their way of playing (or desired way of playing) is seen as House Rules by others and then seem to be arguing for a creative reading of the rules to be able to proclaim they are really playing RAW. So, yeah, I see how both "sides" might believe that the interpretation of the other is tortured.

Reading RAW is hardly rules lawyering, either. Pejorative forgiven in light of your faulty assumption.

I don't think it's a matter of "taking things seriously" rather than "different view on how the rules work". I don't think anyone is suggesting it's unfair for someone to interpret the rules the ways you are. I think people are objecting to the "Everyone should do it the way I think it should be done" approach. Which is what this thread theme suggested, and then Flamestrike seems to have cranked the volume up to 11 on that theme so far that even the original poster thinks it's too much.

My intent was to suggest a novel way to do character creation, based on Tasha's optional rules, and discuss its implications and how much appeal it has. As other's have noted, the difference between optional rules and house rules is a pretty nebulous one. It wasn't meant to be a sticking point nor was the one-true-wayism for clickbait in thread title--which I caveat-ed in the OP, and again further down the thread.

Also, I really ought not to have used elven accuracy as one of the examples in the OP. It's indicative of my view of the rules, which many of you disagree with, but whether custom origins work with racial feats wasn't meant to be the focus of discussion. If it bothers you, feel free to assume that the suggestion in the OP would be implemented without them.

So... would any of you guys consider trying this character creation method at your table? Can you see any upsides, or just downsides?

 

[Zardnaar]

My intent was to suggest a novel way to do character creation, based on Tasha's optional rules, and discuss its implications and how much appeal it has. As other's have noted, the difference between optional rules and house rules is a pretty nebulous one. It wasn't meant to be a sticking point nor was the one-true-wayism for clickbait in thread title--which I caveat-ed in the OP, and again further down the thread.

Also, I really ought not to have used elven accuracy as one of the examples in the OP. It's indicative of my view of the rules, which many of you disagree with, but whether custom origins work with racial feats wasn't meant to be the focus of discussion. If it bothers you, feel free to assume that the suggestion in the OP would be implemented without them.

So... would any of you guys consider trying this character creation method at your table? Can you see any upsides, or just downsides?

Might allow it for custom NPCs or an old race that hasn't been updated to 5E or a custom lineage.
They wouldn't count for racial feats though.

 

[Azzy]

The middle path! Then again, one might wonder why print rules at all? Just let DMs do what they please. I guess Wizards wouldn't get their $49.95 SRP if they didn't print anything.

Eh. If we were discussing some sort of rule (like a feat, spell, class, etc.) that didn't require a DM/player's interpretation and custom fluff of what it's supposed to represent in order to work, I might be inclined to buy that argument. But we're not. The custom lineage is something that requires interpretation as part of its basic function, as well as the DM's explicit permission. It's a rule that is in a quantum state that requires the DM's observation. Just like the DM must determine the DC of an ability check based on their own best judgement, so, too, do custom lineages require the DM to determine on a case by case basis how they work and interact with other game features.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Eh. If we were discussing some sort of rule (like a feat, spell, class, etc.) that didn't require a DM/player's interpretation and custom fluff of what it's supposed to represent in order to work, I might be inclined to buy that argument. But we're not. The custom lineage is something that requires interpretation as part of its basic function, as well as the DM's explicit permission. It's a rule that is in a quantum state that requires the DM's observation. Just like the DM must determine the DC of an ability check based on their own best judgement, so, too, do custom lineages require the DM to determine on a case by case basis how they work and interact with other game features.

I'd argue there's a big difference between a DM assigning DCs on the fly throughout an entire campaign and the rules for character creation which just happen up front. So, I'm not really on board with that analogy.
To me the custom lineage rules in Tasha's are clear - no interpretation needed. But, sure, character creation can be whatever the DM, and the players to some extent, agree upon in session zero.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

My intent was to suggest a novel way to do character creation, based on Tasha's optional rules, and discuss its implications and how much appeal it has. As other's have noted, the difference between optional rules and house rules is a pretty nebulous one. It wasn't meant to be a sticking point nor was the one-true-wayism for clickbait in thread title--which I caveat-ed in the OP, and again further down the thread.

Also, I really ought not to have used elven accuracy as one of the examples in the OP. It's indicative of my view of the rules, which many of you disagree with, but whether custom origins work with racial feats wasn't meant to be the focus of discussion. If it bothers you, feel free to assume that the suggestion in the OP would be implemented without them.

So... would any of you guys consider trying this character creation method at your table? Can you see any upsides, or just downsides?

Not something I would consider at our table at this time (and, as it turns out, in January we are starting up a new West Marches style campaign with 2 DMs - DM Dave1 gotsta play sometime! - custom lineages are off the table entirely per our pre-session zero DM discussions). But, if you try it, would like to hear a report of how it worked out for you in session zero and then into the 4 tiers of play (acknowledging that this is possibly encouraging some thread necromancy by you at some point depending on the pacing of your game's leveling - hope that is ok).