That's pretty silly when talking about something like a cliff or wall. I can see a steep slope being that much more difficult for a horse, but no horse, even with an extra set of arms, is climbing a cliff or wall that easily.
"That's silly" is not "That isn't what the rules say"
Fantasy realism is a thing. It's the fantasy world itself that explains dragons, 600 year old humanoids and creatures descended from planar creatures. A centaur, though, doesn't have an in game explanation for being able to climb a wall or cliff as a horse with some hands. Trying to equate centaurs climbing(unrealistic as the fantasy setting has laid out centaurs) with the others(realist with how the fantasy setting lays them out) is a False Equivalence.
Unrealistic as the game world set it out? Not really.
The maximum weight of a centaur from Ravnica (who is a medium creature) is 840 lbs (
@Oofta here since weight came up)
Equine Build says they count as Large, and Centaurs get a +2 Strength, so at Strength 16 (which they can have at level 1) the Centaur can lift 960 lbs... 120 lbs more than their maximum body weight.
So, per the rules, it is entirely possible for a Centaur to do a pull-up and lift their entire body. So, it would also be possible for them to pull their body up a surface and climb.
So, completely possible per the fantasy setting and the rules, just difficult... which the Equine Build ability recognizes.
It can. If you the DM want to give the centaur race spider climb feet or the ability to reduce their weight by 95% so that they can climb better, go for it.
Or if one just... follows the rules of the game.
Shocker that one.
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Here’s my reasoning, for what it’s worth. I’m fine with magic existing and with magical creatures existing. It’s a fantasy-adventure game. But, once I accept that those things exist, they have to follow the same kind of internal logic as the rest of the world and its inhabitants. Things need to eat, sleep, and naughty word...unless they don’t. Unless the MM or adventure or fairy tale I’m pulling a creature from gives me details on the thing, I’ll make them up with an eye for verisimilitude. You shove a manticore in a dungeon room but it can’t fit through the door...okay, so it was either teleported in or it came in when it was small enough to fit. Either way, it still needs to eat, sleep, and naughty word. Even if it never comes up in game, these things need to make sense.
The more “it’s magic” answers you give the less believable it becomes and the less interested I am in playing or running it. That last part is clearly a preference. Some people don’t care about those details. I do. Even if there’s magic, I still want the world to make internally consistent logical sense. Even if it’s only in the loosest sense of those words. Once I accept that the fantasy is “real” in terms of the fantasy world, then it has to move, act, behave, respond, etc as if it were real. Physics effects these fantasy creatures unless there’s magic involved.
A centaur climbing a ladder. I’ve never seen or read of a centaur bending forwards or backwards at the “join.” So, to me, that bit is either completely inflexible or mostly inflexible. So they’d have to climb the ladder with their hands and arms and the front set of legs and hooves...leaving the rest of their body hanging in air. I’m going to say that there’s more weight behind that line of arms-hands-front legs-hooves than there is on that line. So, physics takes over and they fall.
Likewise, a centaur isn’t going to be able to pick a lock with its hooves. They can pick a lock with their hands or kick the door in with their hooves. But there’s no dexterity or fine manipulation with their hooves. Internal consistency. They’re hooves, not feet or fingers. No digits, no fine manipulation...without magic. But I guess that makes me a naughty word DM to a few people here. Oh well.
So it comes down to how does the physical mechanics of a centaur work? A horse‘s neck is fairly flexible and they can lower their heads to the ground. And a person can bend at the waist to touch the ground. So is the torso spine a horse’s neck or a human spine? That difference matters.
Stand up, lean forward by just moving your spine, not your hips. How far can you get? You can hunch forward and reach a few inches closer to the ground. But you’re not touching the ground without moving your hips or bending your knees. I don’t see “hips” where the “join” is in any centaur art. So I think that bit of anatomy is fairly inflexible, like the human spine. Without that flexibility, without hips or working like a horse neck, it would be impossible to climb a ladder. The shape of a centaur is basically an inflexible “L”. You need that weight roughly in a line to not fall off a ladder.
This has been “fun”. Merry, happy, festive, joyous, etc.
While a ladder might be more difficult because of the size, you realize that your argument does not work if the Centaur is fully capable of supporting their own weight with their arms.
Which they can, as I demonstrated.
So... no, they wouldn't fall of the ladder, because they can support their body weight.
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Heh.
You folks do realize that horses CAN climb ladders right? Maybe not 90 degree ones, fair enough, but, pretty steep ones. Google it.
Also, I love how this went from cliffs to ladders, probably specifically to create a tight space that would require a lot of twisting to make sense.
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This seems to be a common line of thought. Since elves exist, and they can see in the dark, then centaurs can climb? Since dragons exist, centaurs can climb? Since there are devils, centaurs can climb?
Here is the difference imho.
We have examples of real life things that can see in the dark. It is not hard to suspend disbelief that a species not human can see in the dark. We have examples of things that can live a long time. We have, through antiquity, been told about devils and dragons. There are clear rules regarding these creatures, and their presence/culture/history is explained ad nauseum.
A centaur climbing a sheer cliff wall or a tall rope ladder to the crows nest defies physics. If you want to give the centaur the innate ability to use a beefy version of Tenser's floating disc for its hind hooves. Cool. Or maybe an innate fly spell that just holds their weight, but doesn't allow them to fly. Then at least there is common sense backing the decisions up. I give all my flying dragons a distorted version of the fly spell. But to say there is a centaur Alex Honnold does break reality - because you are denying physics.
If you deny physics then all characters should be able to jump 1 mile. Why not? Let all characters jump from tree top to tree top without any ability or training. Or, better yet, have them be able to pick up castles. But of course, we generally don't allow that because we want our worlds grounded in physics.
Again, it only defies physics if you assume that they cannot lift their body weight.
They can lift their body weight, so it does not defy physics.
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LOL. I had a player want to play a centaur, but then accuse me of cheating when I mentioned a few things would be harder on them than other PCs. They wanted the fun of a centaur but zero drawbacks. Players just want to win without being challenged. Bonuses but no penalties. It’s largely why I’ve gone from DMing 5E to B/X if D&D and other, tougher or lower powered games like Call of Cthulhu.
Well, were you ignoring the rules like a lot of people on this forum have been doing? Or were you imposing new penalties?
I remember something about boats. Why would you have imposed penalties for a centaur getting into a boat? As long as it is big enough for a shetland pony, it is big enough for a centaur.
And, you obviously know that making sweeping statements about players not wanting to be challenged if BS.
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I definitely agree with this Chaos. If the centaur is common enough in the world to where the cities can accommodate, yet still profit from them, then they would have built in areas/modifications. But, if centaurs are 2% of the population, outside of a few places, they just would not adjust. So a world full of centaurs could (and in mho) would be cool. Architecture designed for them, a very neat idea. But, for the generic kitchen sink or a curated world where the DM is simply trying to work with the player, it seems to fall short. (Just in my eyes. I know all tables are different.)
Perhaps a poor example, but how many people are wheelchair bound? Would you feel like 2% of the population is accurate?
Again, maybe not every single bar or inn would have adjustments, but saying that none of them do is just as unrealistic. And, maybe that isn't even an issue the player is concerned about. Maybe they don't care that they need the waitress to step outside to hand them their drink.
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Sure, but not something an adventuring party could use. You'd need some sort of large harness and pull system that you could install. For cliffs near a centaur village/town/city, there would be a permanent system like that IF there was a need to get to the top for some reason.
No, you are completely wrong, almost embarrassingly so.
Because guess what is in the PHB equipment list?
Block and Tackle: A set of pulleys with a cable threaded through them and a hook to attach to Objects, a block and tackle allows you to hoist up to four times the weight you can normally lift.
Strength 16 fighter can lift 480, four times that would be 1,920 pounds, over double the weight of the heaviest Ravnica Centaur
So, not only is it something that an adventuring party could use, it is standard equipment with rules they are expected to be able to carry with them.
