Blog (A5E) A Quick Look At Skills

[dave2008]

I agree with the emphasis on skills and ability scores being separate (of course we already do this in our 5e game). I also like the extended use of expertise dice and specialties, in theory. I think it is good for people who like that extra granularity, but when we tried something similar it just didn't add anything to the game for us. However, I image the target audience for this alt 5e will enjoy it.

 

[Starfox]

I don'tmind having the Option to change what ability a skill is used with, but I am not fond of disassociating them entirely. This makes the players task much harder when making a character to be good at some ability. "I want to make a character good at climbing" - "That's Athletics, and also Strength, Dex, or Con depending on the type of climbing". Player dutifully puts points into all of this. The character then comes to a mountain village. "I want to impress the villagers with my climbing ability" - "Ok, roll Athletics + Charisma" "Oh shite!" My preferred solution is actually to disassociate skills from ability scores entirely, but that is likely too big a departure from the history of DnD.

 

[EchoSerenity]

One of the big survey results was related to more granularity with skills. With that in mind, we are currently developing the O5E (original 5E) skill system into something a little more detailed. Here’s where we are right now, with the caveat that this is very much a peek at work in development and is very subject to change.

Skill List​

The skill list is largely the same. We’ve added two new skills: Engineering, which allows a character to know a fact or advance a project involving building, invention, or mathematics; and Local Knowledge, which encompasses things like streetwise, customs, traditions, and knowing who or where things are.

Skill Checks​

In O5E, you make ability checks. In Level Up, you can also make skill checks.

You can use any ability with any skill as long as it’s appropriate to the task at hand. For example, let’s look at the new skill of Engineering. You might use Intelligence (Engineering) to figure out how a strange machine works; you might use Dexterity (Engineering) to build a tiny device; or you might use Strength (Engineering) to build a wall. As usual, if you are proficient in a skill you get to add your proficiency bonus to the ability check.

Of course, if you aren’t proficient in a relevant skill, you can still try with a flat ability check.

Specialties​

In each skill you might also have a specialty. Just because you are proficient in Athletics doesn’t mean you’re equally good at swimming, climbing, and jumping.

The number of specialties you have is equal to your proficiency modifier — you start with two, and you gain more as you increase in level. You note the specialty next to the skill. Whenever your speciality applies, you gain an expertise die in that check.

You also gain some extra specialties based on your Intelligence modifier.

Each skill has its own list of possible specialties, although these may vary sightly in different game worlds. For example, Acrobatics offers balancing, escape artistry, and tumbling, while Athletics includes climbing, jumping, lifting, running, swimming, and throwing.

Expertise Dice​

You have already seen expertise dice in the Rogue playtest document and elsewhere. An expertise die is an extra d4 you add to an ability check, attack roll, skill check, or saving throw. If you gain more than one expertise die for a particular roll, they don’t stack directly; instead they increase the size of the expertise die from d4 to d6, and then capping at d8. You can get expertise dice from a variety of sources.

Your Character Sheet​

On your character sheet, skills won’t be listed along with relevant ability scores. They’ll be separated from the ability scores, to make it clear that any skill can be used with any ability. It’ll look something like this:

Athletics [✓ ] _______________

You’d check the box if you are proficient, and you’d write your speciality (if you have one) on the line.

Continue reading...

I absolutely love the new mechanics around Proficiency, Specialties & Expertise, they are spectacular. I want them in my game right now.

 

[narfandor]

I totally can't understand the thing. What are skill checks? How they are supposed to work?

For example, in dnd 5e:
1. Player describe an action
2. GM choose an ability, always one of six
3. GM check if the player have some source of proficency bonus to it(skill, instrument and so on) and apply it
4. Make a roll

Thats why dnd 5e have only ability checks - because for any roll GM select one ability.

How skill checks should be played? For example, who should choose a skill: player or game master? What if there is no corresponding skills(For example, what I should choose in drinking contest? Survivial?) or more that once? How this is mixed with ability check? Can both exist in the same time and how to choose between them? Can skill check exists without any ability(like in GURPS)?

 

[Waller]

I totally can't understand the thing. What are skill checks? How they are supposed to work?

For example, in dnd 5e:
1. Player describe an action
2. GM choose an ability, always one of six
3. GM check if the player have some source of proficency bonus to it(skill, instrument and so on) and apply it
4. Make a roll

Thats why dnd 5e have only ability checks - because for any roll GM select one ability.

How skill checks should be played? For example, who should choose a skill: player or game master? What if there is no corresponding skills(For example, what I should choose in drinking contest? Survivial?) or more that once? How this is mixed with ability check? Can both exist in the same time and how to choose between them? Can skill check exists without any ability(like in GURPS)?

It’s exactly like it already is in core 5E. Check page 174 of your Player’s Handbook where it tells you how to make ability checks.

 

[narfandor]

It’s exactly like it already is in core 5E. Check page 174 of your Player’s Handbook where it tells you how to make ability checks.

Yes, It's how to make ability checks. But as far I see skill check are not ability checks. For example, for ability check you firstly choose an ability and after that you choose a skill for profiency bonus. But, for example, in druid test page I see

First-Hand Naturalist
... you may always choose to use Wisdom when making Nature checks.

How that should be played? You choose an ability second, choose the profiency bonus sources and if Nature fits(you can have no Nature profiency!) you can change the ability used? Or you should choose the skill first, and if you use Nature and only then you should choose the ability score? Can you use Nature skill when you are not profient with it and have profiency bonus from other source like herbalism kit? Or other skill? That confuse me!

 

[Waller]

Yes, It's how to make ability checks. But as far I see skill check are not ability checks. For example, for ability check you firstly choose an ability and after that you choose a skill for profiency bonus. But, for example, in druid test page I see

How that should be played? You choose an ability second, choose the profiency bonus sources and if Nature fits(you can have no Nature profiency!) you can change the ability used? Or you should choose the skill first, and if you use Nature and only then you should choose the ability score? Can you use Nature skill when you are not profient with it and have profiency bonus from other source like herbalism kit? Or other skill? That confuse me!

Just like in the second photo, also from the Players Handbook. I think you’re overcomplicating it. Choose whichever you like first as long as the result is a viable check.

 

[narfandor]

Just like in the second photo, also from the Players Handbook. I think you’re overcomplicating it. Choose whichever you like first as long as the result is a viable check.

Sorry, I'm a pedantic person. And when someone is prinitng the rules, I want them to be cristal clear. I spend a lot of time about RAW/RAI rules discussion.

And in that post rules are very vague. For example, I can see the situation when more that one skills(or other profiency bonus sources) can be applied to one task. In OD&D I have an answer for such situation: apply largest bonus only one time. But I cannot see what I should do here. Can I apply profiency bonus from one skill, expertise die from another and some other bonuses(like ability change) from the third?

 

[Waller]

Sorry, I'm a pedantic person. And when someone is prinitng the rules, I want them to be cristal clear. I spend a lot of time about RAW/RAI rules discussion.

And in that post rules are very vague. For example, I can see the situation when more that one skills(or other profiency bonus sources) can be applied to one task. In OD&D I have an answer for such situation: apply largest bonus only one time. But I cannot see what I should do here. Can I apply profiency bonus from one skill, expertise die from another and some other bonuses(like ability change) from the third?

In core 5E no. You use one ability and one skill like it says in the rules on ability checks.

In A5E dunno, nobody’s seen the rules yet, but I would guess no.

 

[narfandor]

In core 5E no. You use one ability and one skill like it says in the rules on ability checks.

There is nothing in core 5e about it. It's only written about profiency bonus -

Your Profiency Bonus can’t be added to a single die roll or other number more than once. For example, if two different rules say you can add your Profiency Bonus to a Wisdom saving throw, you nevertheless add the bonus only once when you make the save.

And because the profiency bonus is the only kind that can be applied to skills, it is calculated only once, regardless the number of sources(and you can have more that one!). The main idea behind profiency bonus is to make rules very simply. But since new rules added many other types of bonuses, I'm a little worried about calculation. Should players choose between 1d4 expertise dice and profiency? How that can be to the new players? Will be that intresting or just waste of time?