D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[Zio_the_dark]

Binky is kind of miffed that he did not get invited to this party, but alas, he does have a new book to complete, the ladies of Candlekeep will not be kept waiting, after all.

You're right I feel ashamed to not have thought about Binky to tell the tales of my young adventurers (who BTW fed the three wolves in the hideout with goblins they killed from the entrance ^^ )

 

[delph]

So how many times this sorcerer died after #320 post? And Hohige change his setting again and again?

 

[Hohige]

So how many times this sorcerer died after #320 post? And Hohige change his setting again and again?

The Demigod defeats all Enemies.

 

[Hohige]

There is no 'infinite loop'. It's a Cleric casting 2 spells (AMF and Temple of the Gods) and using a handful of class features.

And I don't need 'DM fiat.' Divine Intervention expressly allows me to ask for a single Cleric or Domain spell of up to 9th level (better than Wish, which you were using repeatedly to spam Simulacrums).

I can simply use Divine Intervention (auto succeeds at 20th level) and ask my Greater Deity to Gate you next to me in my enclosed Temple of the Gods on Celestia.

The Gate spell:



I could also always cast it myself as a 20th level Cleric of course.

No save, and you appear right next to me in Celestia. The beat down then commences, and I win.

"And I don't need 'DM fiat.' Divine Intervention expressly allows me to ask for a single Cleric or Domain spell of up to 9th level (better than Wish, which you were using repeatedly to spam Simulacrums)."


I am laughing . Do you read the same book as me?

"The DM chooses the Nature of the intervention;"
"The DM chooses the Nature of the intervention;"
"The DM chooses the Nature of the intervention;"
"The DM chooses the Nature of the intervention;"

Another clear problem, you do not know who your target is and what the name is.
It has failed countless times and that is clearly, more explicit is impossible, DM fiat.

Divine Intervention​

Beginning at 10th level, you can call on your deity to intervene on your behalf when your need is great.

Imploring your deity's aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your Cleric level, your deity intervenes. The DM chooses the Nature of the intervention; the Effect of any Cleric spell or Cleric domain spell would be appropriate. If your deity intervenes, you can't use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a Long Rest.

At 20th level, your call for intervention succeeds automatically, no roll required.

 

[Hohige]

Is the Demigod and simulacrum on the field of battle now or still in their hidey hole?

Outside of that, freezing sphere does what 10d6, so 35 average damage on a failed save*2, we get 70 (empowered let's you reroll some of those dice, so we could call it maybe 90), and a max of 120 on 2 failed saves, against a 20th level d10 hit die character (call it 124 hp before con mod, race or feats). Death here is very unlikely.

Of course this is also assuming you choose the right point to target against a target that can hide at +17 and/or be anywhere between 0 (takeout movement), 70-90 (bonus action dash and movement) or 500 (tree stride) from the point of attack (could hide and do this last one).

Of course this also assumes 2 failed saves against 0 damage mitigation. And the Ranger has several options there as well depending on subclass.

And I'm ignoring the Avengers, they will either never be close enough, as the Ranger bonus action dashes, or they won't have a target (with their mighty +2 to perception), or they'll be dead from getting attacked with no ability to counterattack for awhile.

So, what happens after you and your simulacrum's blow a spell slot and 2 sorcery points to certainly fail to kill the ranger (and potentially to fail to even do any damage at all)?

The MMD simulacrum has +11 Perception +1d4 Guidannce each turn, Search Action every turn. You aren't hidden.
Ready Action for Celestials when you attack. When you attack, the reaction hits you.
Distant Empowered Freezing sphere at 660ft (out your range)+ Aasimar damage. It's 63 damage x 2. It's 126 damage. You can cast it until you are dead.

The Retriever will hunt you with 80ft speed (action and move). Stealth is useless here.
The range cannot fly, so you are not a threat.

 

[Earth2Carnifex]

The Demigod defeats all Enemies.

Except Binky, and of course he at this point has never come close to Alfred, at best he "MIGHT" have defeated his Sim, but I doubt that is even true. Binky awaits you.

 

[Hohige]

Except Binky, and of course he at this point has never come close to Alfred, at best he "MIGHT" have defeated his Sim, but I doubt that is even true. Binky awaits you.

Binky is too scary...

 

[Ovinomancer]

The MMD simulacrum has +11 Perception +1d4 Guidannce each turn, Search Action every turn. You aren't hidden.

You can't cast guidance and search on the same turn.

Ready Action for Celestials when you attack. When you attack, the reaction hits you.

You can't ready actions outside of initiative.

Distant Empowered Freezing sphere at 660ft (out your range)+ Aasimar damage. It's 63 damage x 2. It's 126 damage. You can cast it until you are dead.

Two turn prep or you're burning spell points to quicken. And, if you quicken, it's not subtle, or distant. In fact, it can't be both subtle and distant. Empower is the only thing on your "normal" list that works with others.

So, if the Sorcerer is casting without subtle all the time, we know who he is, right? So, then, no quickened spells or distant spells.

The Retriever will hunt you with 80ft speed (action and move). Stealth is useless here.

For, and pay attention, 10 minutes. And, you're not "personally acquainted" with any of the builds coming for you.

The range cannot fly, so you are not a threat.

Okay -- guys, the sorcerer is always hovering at over 600ft high. Do with this as you will, but he's never lower. However, this is a great relief to many people, as he's only got the one big attack a day that can reach that far. Pulls a lot of teeth, really. This is all good news.

And can't rest on a pegasus. (DM pwease?!)

And isn't in his fortress(es) because they don't fly that high.

 

[Hohige]

No; it's the best at lying to creatures. It's not the best at persuasion or intimidation. It is not even good at creating a disguise (that is a function of the Disguise Kit proficiency and is more likely to be intelligence or maybe wisdom than charisma. (Read up on disguise kits and deception. Deception allows you to act correctly when you are wearing a disguise, but the quality of the disguise is from how that was made (the kit that says that's what it's for).)


If by "really cool" you mean "probably impossible." There is no way that riding a pegasus could count as a restful circumstance. If it were a horse on the ground walking, I might allow it, but flying with wings is just never going to be a relaxing, restful experience.


The sorcerer's attack at 660 ft is the freezing sphere (possibly empowered). Since you didn't spend your action to start your turn to activate your daily Aasimar trait, the +20 damage is not active. Cast at spell slot level 6, the Empowered freezing sphere deals an expected value of (3.5*4 + 3 + 4*2 + 5*2 + 6) 41 damage. Call that 42.5 for other math-y reasons. It's cold damage with a Con save DC 18 for 1/2. One for you and one for your Sim (which depletes that slot permanently from the Sim, meaning you have to Wish - Simulacrum to have it again) makes the total 85 damage. Are you upcasting it?

(By the way, you really do need to pick whether you are somehow a Drow (probably against the rules, almost certainly improbable to arrange even if it were legal) or an Aasimar -- you only get to be one of them at a time.)


Your Celestials deal, on average, 18 damage on a hit, 25 on a crit, and 0 on a miss; they have 4 attacks at +10. Other characters tend to worry more about their AC than yours, so, it seems unlikely that the Celestials will hit with perfect reliability, especially at long range where disadvantage applies to all their attacks. The actual average expected damage is easy to calculate. Here is a table, including the level 9 and level 8 versions (since your Sim can only ever get a level 8 Celestial and I think that is one of the situations from the original post). For an AC of 16, the expected damage per round is only 40.6 per level 9 celestial. Still kind of likely to kill a wizard, especially after your spheres. But that does rather assume no protections are active.

Table of Expected damage vs. AC for long-range summon celestial attacks:

Spoiler

AC​	hit chance​	L9 dpa​	L9 dpr​	L8 dpa​	L8 dpr​
12​	0.9025​	16.2625​	65.05​	15.36​	61.44​
13​	0.81​	14.5975​	58.39​	13.7875​	55.15​
14​	0.7225​	13.0225​	52.09​	12.3​	49.2​
15​	0.64​	11.5375​	46.15​	10.8975​	43.59​
16​	0.5625​	10.1425​	40.57​	9.58​	38.32​
17​	0.49​	8.8375​	35.35​	8.3475​	33.39​
18​	0.4225​	7.6225​	30.49​	7.2​	28.8​
19​	0.36​	6.4975​	25.99​	6.1375​	24.55​
20​	0.3025​	5.4625​	21.85​	5.16​	20.64​
21​	0.25​	4.5175​	18.07​	4.2675​	17.07​
22​	0.2025​	3.6625​	14.65​	3.46​	13.84​
23​	0.16​	2.8975​	11.59​	2.7375​	10.95​
24​	0.1225​	2.2225​	8.89​	2.1​	8.4​
25​	0.09​	1.6375​	6.55​	1.5475​	6.19​
26​	0.0625​	1.1425​	4.57​	1.08​	4.32​
27​	0.04​	0.7375​	2.95​	0.6975​	2.79​
28​	0.0225​	0.4225​	1.69​	0.4​	1.6​
29​	0.01​	0.1975​	0.79​	0.1875​	0.75​
30​	0.0025​	0.0625​	0.25​	0.06​	0.24​

Umm . . . no. It knows what the target knew at the moment it was created and can learn nothing new. (That's why the Sorcerer's (probably rules-violating) DMM sim can never direct a summoned retriever to "retrieve" anyone that the real-live DMM didn't know. The retriever's quarry must be someone the retriever's master is "personally acquainted with," and since simulacra can not learn anything new, then the real-person being simulated must be personally acquainted with the target-to-be. If, per your interpretation, the DMMSim knew nothing, they could never send a retriever on a hunt.


That is from the "object to creature" part of the spell, not the "creature to creature." The correct section of True Polymorph says that the creature retains its alignment and personality. The personality of a Sim includes the quirky little traits that it "is friendly to you and creatures you designate" and that it "obeys your spoken commands."


Oh, goody. Another f-ing wish. You must get like 17 of those each day.


The MMD SIm is probably not a legal thing.
On the likely illegality of the DMM sim:

Spoiler

While the Wish allows you to duplicate the effect of Simulacrum, thereby bypassing the material components and casting time of the Simulacrum spell, I am not sure that it allows you to change the effect of the spell, which reads (emphasis mine), "You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." The range is "Touch." So, absent an actual DMM that is either willing or helpless, it seems like the DMM sim is impossible. If creating a sim of a humanoid that is not present is a legal use of the Wish-Simulacrum, then an opponent Wizard could just Wish --> Simulacrum for a sim of the Sorcerer ("the true leader of the magen and zombie army") and conduct an extensive interview of the sim for pointers on the defenses (layout and patterns).

Either the DMMSim doesn't know anything (your interpretation), and thus can't be familiar with a target, and thus can't designate a target for the retriever, or the DMMSim knows only what the DMM knew when it was (illegally) targeted by the Simulacrum spell, and thus can't learn about someone new (like the scrying wizard, or even someone the DMMSim actually meets in person), and thus can't become familiar with a target, and thus can't designate a target for the retriever. Either way, there is no legal way to make the retriever hunt someone that the actual DMM didn't know.

"If by "really cool" you mean "probably impossible." There is no way that riding a pegasus could count as a restful circumstance. If it were a horse on the ground walking, I might allow it, but flying with wings is just never going to be a relaxing, restful experience."

I did not know that it was not possible to rest on an airplane. Also, Galven Magen can hover. Just hold the demigod while hove. I prefer to rest on top of pegasus, because it's cool.

"The sorcerer's attack at 660 ft is the freezing sphere (possibly empowered). Since you didn't spend your action to start your turn to activate your daily Aasimar trait, the +20 damage is not active. Cast at spell slot level 6, the Empowered freezing sphere deals an expected value of (3.5*4 + 3 + 4*2 + 5*2 + 6) 41 damage. Call that 42.5 for other math-y reasons. It's cold damage with a Con save DC 18 for 1/2. One for you and one for your Sim (which depletes that slot permanently from the Sim, meaning you have to Wish - Simulacrum to have it again) makes the total 85 damage. Are you upcasting it?"

2 Celestial attack is insane + Sorcerer's spheres = One turn death.


"
The MMD SIm is probably not a legal thing.
On the likely illegality of the DMM sim:

Spoiler

While the Wish allows you to duplicate the effect of Simulacrum, thereby bypassing the material components and casting time of the Simulacrum spell, I am not sure that it allows you to change the effect of the spell, which reads (emphasis mine), "You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." The range is "Touch." So, absent an actual DMM that is either willing or helpless, it seems like the DMM sim is impossible. If creating a sim of a humanoid that is not present is a legal use of the Wish-Simulacrum, then an opponent Wizard could just Wish --> Simulacrum for a sim of the Sorcerer ("the true leader of the magen and zombie army") and conduct an extensive interview of the sim for pointers on the defenses (layout and patterns).

"

It makes a lot of sense with Simulacrum spell that has 12 hours casting. But Wished Twinned Simulacrum is a single action.

 

[Hohige]

You can't cast guidance and search on the same turn.

You can't ready actions outside of initiative.

Two turn prep or you're burning spell points to quicken. And, if you quicken, it's not subtle, or distant. In fact, it can't be both subtle and distant. Empower is the only thing on your "normal" list that works with others.

So, if the Sorcerer is casting without subtle all the time, we know who he is, right? So, then, no quickened spells or distant spells.


For, and pay attention, 10 minutes. And, you're not "personally acquainted" with any of the builds coming for you.

Okay -- guys, the sorcerer is always hovering at over 600ft high. Do with this as you will, but he's never lower. However, this is a great relief to many people, as he's only got the one big attack a day that can reach that far. Pulls a lot of teeth, really. This is all good news.

And can't rest on a pegasus. (DM pwease?!)

And isn't in his fortress(es) because they don't fly that high.

"You can't cast guidance and search on the same turn."

Guidance and Search actions are free, It doesn't care.

"You can't ready actions outside of initiative."

I strongly disagree

"Two turn prep or you're burning spell points to quicken. And, if you quicken, it's not subtle, or distant. In fact, it can't be both subtle and distant. Empower is the only thing on your "normal" list that works with others."

Instakill the enemy at 660ft is what we need.

"Okay -- guys, the sorcerer is always hovering at over 600ft high. Do with this as you will, but he's never lower. However, this is a great relief to many people, as he's only got the one big attack a day that can reach that far. Pulls a lot of teeth, really. This is all good news."

We can find you easily.
we are much more likely to find you than you cause a threat.

An army of zombies are on the ground with Inspire Leadership, destroying everything along the way, where are you going to hide?