D&D 5E So Where my Witches at?

[doctorbadwolf]

My co-writer is a witch and so is his girlfriend and all of her friends, maybe somewhere a truly offense witch stereotype exists (as silly as that seems to me,) but none of the attempts at a D&D conversion have struck them as particularly problematic so far.

And most of the witches I know would disagree with your friends.

Turns out, you knowing a person in a group who is “cool with it” doesn’t make a thing a good idea.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Every wiccan I know loves the Halloween imagery and spooky goth imagery. They are totally cool with it. And these are people with the most serious, esoteric books on the subject, people who actually know what they're doing. Wicca is just like Satanism. It's more of an anti-establishment movement than an actual functioning religion with a historical precedent. Some beatnik guy invented it in 1954. It's kinda like the dudes who wear mjolnir necklaces and listen to Amon Amarth and say they're into Asatru. Nobody actually knows what the real Norse religion was like, or even if it was a religion at all. All of our historical sources are heavily twisted and Christianized; it's become a meme.

Feel free to go to any large body of actual experts on the subject and talk this nonsense, if you actually care at all about being correct, rather than about just having a take to share with the forum.

edit for clarity: I won’t have an argument about the nature of Norse Paganism with a person who behaves the way you have in this thread on a forum that forbids getting into the weeds wrt religion and faith, so don’t bother.

If you actually knew anything about modern western paganism in general, much less Asatru, Heathenry, and/or Norse Paganism more specifically, you would already know that your simplistic comment is totally useless nonsense.

You come across like someone who has never actually investigated any of this, but has met one or two of what the broader community calls “Brosatru”, and foolishly concluded that they are what Norse Paganism is.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So would putting a sidebar stating this subclass represents the common fictional depiction of witches rather than any historic or real world connotation (akin to what was done in Xanathar for samurai and cavalier) be sufficient?

Veeeery different.

Samurai and Cavalier were never terms used as part of a system of oppression, to label certain people as dangerously aberrant in behavior and proclivity.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

To your spell list suggestion, I would add spells that transform (self and others) , some minor healing spells, and some divination spells . Personally, I would like to see the buffs and hexes handled as spells. I do agree limited "big/blasty" offensive spells and would take it one step further for no big/blasty spells (i.e. fireball, lightning bolt, etc.)

I’m building a Binder that should do a pretty good witch, and it has very few blasting spells. It’s a Pact Magic with Prepared Spells caster, and Ritual Casting. At level 1 it gets unseen servant and 4 other ritual spells, and then gets normal spells and cantrips at level 2.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Turns out, you knowing a person in a group who is “cool with it” doesn’t make a thing a good idea.

My hesitation about the word "witch" is based more on its use as a pejorative than on sensitivity to those who identify as witches. However, I can't agree more with the above sentence. I'm so sick of these threads where somebody says, "I know an X, and they aren't offended by Y."

I can hardly think of a category of argument or evidence less relevant than that. Well, ok, I guess, "I'm not an X, but I don't see why X's should be offended..." is even less relevant.

 

[Remathilis]

Veeeery different.

Samurai and Cavalier were never terms used as part of a system of oppression, to label certain people as dangerously aberrant in behavior and proclivity.

Yes, witch can be used as a pejorative. So can barbarian. So can dwarf. So can harpy. Are we going to get rid of every term that has a slightly negative connotation?

 

[Guest 6801328]

Back on topic, I've been thinking about this:

You can easily make a passable witch...or shaman, or occultist, or witch doctor, or whatever...simply by choosing appropriate spells. Want a Disney witch? Use find familiar for your black cat, cast polymorph a lot, only cast fly if you are holding a broom, use a wand as your spellcasting focus, etc. If there's some special you especially want...say, bane...you can either multiclass or use a feat.

Now, I like a really good subclass as much as the next person, but, really, what's the problem with this approach? (I have my own answers to that question, but I'm curious what others will say.)

 

[Guest 6801328]

Yes, witch can be used as a pejorative. So can barbarian. So can dwarf. So can harpy. Are we going to get rid of every term that has a slightly negative connotation?

No, we're not.

Any other questions?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Back on topic, I've been thinking about this:

You can easily make a passable witch...or shaman, or occultist, or witch doctor, or whatever...simply by choosing appropriate spells. Want a Disney witch? Use find familiar for your black cat, cast polymorph a lot, only cast fly if you are holding a broom, use a wand as your spellcasting focus, etc. If there's some special you especially want...say, bane...you can either multiclass or use a feat.

Now, I like a really good subclass as much as the next person, but, really, what's the problem with this approach? (I have my own answers to that question, but I'm curious what others will say.)

The main issue with just being a Wizard would probably be the lack of having Hex and other "cursing" spells.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

My hesitation about the word "witch" is based more on its use as a pejorative than on sensitivity to those who identify as witches. However, I can't agree more with the above sentence. I'm so sick of these threads where somebody says, "I know an X, and they aren't offended by Y."

I can hardly think of a category of argument or evidence less relevant than that. Well, ok, I guess, "I'm not an X, but I don't see why X's should be offended..." is even less relevant.

The argument below is roughly in the same ballpark, but yeah those two are definitely at the top of the list of useless arguments.

Yes, witch can be used as a pejorative. So can barbarian. So can dwarf. So can harpy. Are we going to get rid of every term that has a slightly negative connotation?

Find me a suggestion, by anyone in this thread, that such a thing is on the table, and I’ll consider taking this rhetorical tactic you’re employing seriously.