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D&D General If D&D were created today, what would it look like?

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Interesting quote from the CoC in Japan article linked by Psyzhran
Referring to CoCs ability to be set in the modern day - as well as span genres from horror and pulp action to romance and “tragic love”
a platform for...incorporating the character's personalities, emotional movements, and the background of the incident into the scenario.

i do think a modern game would have a narrative focus allowing for social/emotional expression through play. Romance and tragic love are major gaps in the D&D style (albeit Ravenloft tried)

i wonder to what the gender stats are for Japanese roleplaying and indeed if a DnD created by women might be different to the one we got
 
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It would look like Critical Role lol. Also maybe fewer chainmail bikinis.

In all seriousness, this is a very interesting question! I am late to the thread (as usual), so I haven't seen all the comments, but I can see some of the points people have made.

I think alignment would either be not a thing, or structured differently (someone suggested something like morally light or dark).

I think (or hope) "classic" races (elves, dwarves, etc) would still be around, but, like CR, I think there would be more what were hitherto considered "unusual" races, such as tieflings, tabaxi, firbolg, etc.

While I am not religious, I would hope they wouldn't shy away from religion and making the existence of the gods fact in D&D. As others said, if it was still polytheistic, I agree with those who have said it would be more likely to reflect real world polytheistic religions, or "pagan" religions (I also hope the afterlife would be a thing).

Not sure if we would have actual settings. With the way WotC is treating lore and the settings these days, I think instead of sourcebooks, we would get "guides" of some sort on the "generalities" of various races, some monsters, gods, classes, and tips on making a world. Then again, considering the popularity of Exandria, perhaps this wouldn't be true, as people would still want lore, whether they view it as "fluff" or not.

As a side note, the Netflix show The Dragon Prince is getting a TTRPG. The only races (so far) in the show are humans and various elves, but I am quite excited to see what they do with it.
 

JEB

Legend
Another question to ponder is what events would've lead to D&D not happening in 1974. In the grand scheme of things, a delay of some 50 years isn't that big of a deal, but it still has repercussions. One could imagine a world without the Ace/Lancer Conan paperbacks, or where wargames never really took off and remained niche and if Arneson and Gygax never connected. Or if videogame technology advanced faster and sooner, people might have been drawn to that instead and we'd be talking about the classic NES game, Dungeons & Dragons..
The simplest way to prevent D&D's existence is for Arneson and Gygax to never come into contact. Arneson would never have developed Blackmoor into a commercial project without Gygax, and Gygax would have never had the role-playing concepts to build upon without Arneson. So Arneson remains a hobbyist with a cool game he plays with his friends, and Gygax stays a minor figure in wargame development.

This could lead to something very similar to the crpgs we got in the 80's, (but a bit more story-game-focused) with further progress from there. The biggest differences would be: it's unlikely that turn-based combat would be the go-to for resolving conflicts with other characters, and the focus on progression (ie leveling up) would be a lot softer, making that concept a lot less pervasive than it is real video games. But someone would have realized people like it when their character gets stronger, so that would have come eventually.
I agree that Choose Your Own Adventure is likely to lead to this. The question is, what would "leveling up" look like? No "character sheet" concept from D&D likely means that you wouldn't see an emphasis on vital statistics. Though there is another source I could see that idea emerging from... sports computer games, which would carry over sports stats like batting averages. (Maybe stats would appear in a percentage-based form, akin to BRP?)

I'm betting character classes wouldn't be a thing, though.

Another complication a friend mentioned when I brought this up is the effect on hobby stores - quite simply, we probably see a lot fewer without D&D or its derivatives (to include CCGs like Magic: The Gathering or major wargames like Warhammer), which in turn probably shrinks the tabletop gaming market to a much more modest size than it's achieved in our history. Maybe this would be averted by SF-derived tabletop games, though?

But honestly, it more and more seems like we wouldn't see pen-and-paper RPGs at all without D&D. RPGs would more likely emerge from computer games and stay there, except maybe the occasional video game-to-board game translation.

And, just to note a few more possible modern D&D influences mentioned I'm skeptical we'd see without 1974 D&D:
  • Discworld (D&D tropes are a pretty clear influence, and Pratchett was definitely aware of D&D)
  • Mistborn (created in response to cliches in other fantasy novels, of which there would be fewer - novels, to be clear, not cliches)
 
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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Folks, is everyone forgetting that board games are huge?

People want to play games in person. A AUDnD would be an in person game. A tabletop game. It would just come out of board games and video games, rather than out of wargames.
 

You think? Because I feel like the moment units become single characters, the roleplaying seed would be planted. Because look at kids playing with Barbies and GI Joes? Sometimes the toy is their friend, but often, they start telling stories with the toy as a character. That's the long and short of what we do to a given intensity of the actual storytelling.

I feel like that's the natural result of individualized minis play. If you look at RTS games with 'heroes' you see the same behavior outside of competitive play.
Personally I am very certain it is not the "natural result", because it would have happened earlier if so.

You have to jump a big wall that people aren't naturally going to jump. Dave Arneson and others helped jump that wall - and it was a wall that was a lot easier to jump in the 1970s, culturally, I'd say (it'd be easy to jump now too - but only because RPGs exist and are popular and have significantly influenced culture far beyond their actual play!).

I agree with all your examples! Yes kids playing with dolls, people speaking as their MOBA characters (which wouldn't exist without D&D, note), and in tabletop games like Warhammer, people doing voices for their characters and so on - even writing up reasons why a battle is happening! That is absolutely all stuff that happens and would happen again. That stuff is all the backstory, the basis for roleplaying. You look at the Bronte sisters in the 1800s and they're making up fantasy worlds together, they're telling stories together.

To take that from casually doing voices, and being silly and fun pretending to be cops and robbers or whatever, to formalizing an entire game-beyond-the-battle, with rules for travel, investigation, environmental dangers, interaction, going from PvP to PvE (which some people just won't do), and encouraging people to RP characters the whole time, and think in-character, not continually meta and tactically like you do in wargames, MOBAs, etc would be a huge leap and indeed the entire idea of a "Dungeon Master" or "Storyteller" or "Gamemaster" would be alien, because none of those games have that. There's a reason that RPGs didn't develop in the 1800s, or the 1920s, or the 1950s, and so on. RP and G are hard to merge. D&D was an unusual event that did so - once that idea was out there, it spread very rapidly, but technologically, conceptually, RPGs could have existed for well over 150 years, maybe more like 300. Yet they didn't until the 1970s. Role-playing, including fantasy world-building, existed before that. Wargames existed since the late 1800s.

So I think it would take an exceptional situation for someone to take a single-character wargame (like Warhammer's Inquisitor game back in 2001) and turn it into an RPG as we know it. They'd need to:

1) Take it from being PvP to PvE. The concept at least would probably exist in computer games, so that'd be something (games like Doom would still exist in AU2021, so there'd have been games which were multiplayer and had both PvE, PvE Co-op and PvP for decades).

2) Decide to develop formalized rules for actions outside of combat. It's fascinating to think what their inspirations might have been.

3) Develop the idea of staying in-character, and only doing stuff your character could think of, and thus roleplaying, rather than merely "Playing to win".

4) Abandon the idea of a specific "win condition", which all the games it derived from would have.

5) Develop rules for developing the character and making them stronger. Again, fascinating to think about what might have inspired them on this. We'd likely end up with something wildly different to most RPGs today, and likely pretty naive.

6) Decide to create an additional role of a guy who writes the adventure and controls all the baddies, but who isn't directly opposed to the players, and is himself also roleplaying the enemies and the world and so on, rather than merely trying to make the players lose.

Now, this could well happen in stages, of course, like:

A) Someone wants to play the 1 character wargame solo, so develops some kind of randomizer to control an enemy character. It's then a small leap to extend that randomizer to multiple enemy characters, and if it was fun, to get your friends in on the action.

At this point you'd basically have a "Horde mode" like games like Mass Effect 3's multiplayer was, or Gears of War has.

B) Someone gets the idea to create levels to fight through, like computer games. Maybe he decides he wants to run the enemies to make it more dramatic than using the randomizer (probably some kind of schism here as some people wouldn't like that).

C) Situations in the levels suggest it might be cool to have some kind of skill system for the characters. It's probably very simple and only relates to combat at first.

D) People start thinking about how their characters should get stronger. Likely they have "points values" as a concept from wargames, so think they should have a system for increasing those points.

But this is likely to the dead end unless someone decides that everyone should be playing in-character and outside purely dangerous situations. Maybe, if it's a merchandised universe, that comes out of fan-fic writers/RPers (who I think would exist w/o D&D, as they seem to be a separate thing and you used to meet ones who'd never heard of RPGs, back in the 1990s, but were keen on RPing in forums/chat, as characters from TV shows etc.). Like it's an Aliens-based game, and someone wants to RP a romance between Vasquez and Ripley or whatever (let's be real, we're talking about fan-fic writers...), and so they play stuff out that's happening outside the combat area, like talking in the galley over dinner or whatever - and these ideas together with the ideas on skills maybe start to merge together to form an idea where they could play out the whole thing - not just the combat-oriented "levels". And then people want to bring their "original characters" in, because again fan-fic writers. So those characters need to be assessed for the "points value" system. So we get a character creation system (likely computer games have systems already where you can pick abilities/weapons too so it's not unfamiliar). And through all this maybe we eventually get to RPGs as we know it.

But there is that gap to jump, that leap of faith, to go from "wargame with some chat" to "staying in character and playing out stuff outside of combat".

I'm not saying it's impossible - sorry if I seemed to be! I'm just saying I don't think it's natural/inevitable in the short-term. Like, you could get from A to D in a couple of years, but then no-one might get past D for decades (probably several people would actually - but it wouldn't catch on).
 

GreyLord

Legend
I think it wouldn't be D&D. It would be something else.

With the modern ideas as opposed to the earlier ideas, I think it would not be anything like the D&D we have today. We may not have the CRPG's we have (as they have their root and inspiration from D&D originally, so that entire line would be shut down) them now.

More likely it would depend on the age group it was focused on.

If it were for a teen age crowd, I imagine it would take a LOT of inspiration from Harry Potter. You probably wouldn't have as many races to choose from. Probably would be something like Muggle or Human, Magic born or something like that, and perhaps Half-Giants.

You'd have classes of Witch/Wizard or subclasses thereof, Animal Trainer, and maybe others along that line.

However, it would be more based on skills and such rather than attributes, and skills may play a much larger role along with spells (as skills) and such.

If for something for older groups, I'd imagine something more in line with the Darker trend fantasy has taken. Probably mostly human based again (as most of the fantasy today is more human rather than any other races). We'd probably have it more purely based on skills rather than any classes, with such things more like you'd see in the Elder Scrolls type games, but on paper.
 


Harry Potter is a bit of a sinking ship franchise now helmed by an increasingly toxic creator. I highly doubt that Harry Potter would have the anywhere the influence today that it could have pulled 10-20 years ago.
It is now, but I think you're completely misunderstanding how much it's influenced people, and will keep influencing people, no matter what it's creator says or does, because it's already out there.

We'll probably see some big Potter-influenced YA/fantasy series in the next decade be super-successful, I'd guess.

I say all this DISLIKING Harry Potter, having given up on the fourth book (a friend insisted I read them) in the early 2000s because I had just had enough of both Harry himself and the universe (which is very... I dunno even know what the word is.. stratified? Elitist? Something like that - and that's glorified to some significant extent).

And I think it's inevitable that it would influence the spellcasting system of a D&D game developed in say, 2019-2020. I'd be absolutely shocked if one of the main core classes wasn't "Harry Potter-style Wizard". The ideas are again, already out there, and in the brains how people, especially younger people, think about spellcasting and so on. I admit I'm assuming this game is written by 30-somethings mostly, who, shocking though this may be to you, would have been kids and teenagers when HP arrived, and if they books didn't influence them, the movies likely would. If they were any younger, the influence is only likely to be stronger.
 


I agree that Choose Your Own Adventure is likely to lead to this. The question is, what would "leveling up" look like? No "character sheet" concept from D&D likely means that you wouldn't see an emphasis on vital statistics. Though there is another source I could see that idea emerging from... sports computer games, which would carry over sports stats like batting averages. (Maybe stats would appear in a percentage-based form, akin to BRP?)

I'm betting character classes wouldn't be a thing, though.

But honestly, it more and more seems like we wouldn't see pen-and-paper RPGs at all without D&D. RPGs would more likely emerge from computer games and stay there, except maybe the occasional video game-to-board game translation.
Leveling up would come from some other genre if it shows up at all - but Metroidelvania games might have invented it independently (heart containers, weapon damage upgrades, etc). Or not. RPGs don't need advancement, actually.

If there are classes at all, they'd likely be based on story tropes, not gaming tropes. That could mean classic characters (the Knight, the Vampire, the Wizard) with guidance on how to make them more than cliche, or they might go the route many PbtA game went and base the classes on story arcs rather than character abilities.

But even that would depend on where they get the idea to make it a team game, since CYOA and even crpgs tend to be solo games.
 

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