D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Seriously? You want to claim that all the monsters in Undermountain understand that attacking Waterdeep is bad for them? I love how the Kobolds, Oozes, Goblins, Constructs, Drow, Duergar ect ect all have an agreement to never attack the surface for their common good.
Since you don't read books well, it seems that you are unaware that one guy runs the whole place and dictates what goes on.
So, just to be clear about your claims.
It's always a bad sign when you say that.
You claimed that the halflings would be in land already cleared of monsters by the other races. In a part of the kingdom that is not on the frontier.
I didn't claim, that. It's the lore that states it.
Now there are threats that could be part of normal society. Things that could be in the small towns near the halflings.
There are no small towns near the halfling villages. That's what living in an out of the way place means.
But the halflings are in the boonies, but not near the frontier, so they can't be threatened by things in the towns, or by things on the frontiers.

Centrally located away from the center? How do you picture this working?
You do understand that countries are really big and have lots and lots of open space that isn't near a town, right?
They don't require a self-preservation instinct? A worry about things killing them?
They have one. It kicks in when things come to their town.
well, they have the emotional capability, but every time we put a threat up, you tell us how they won't ever actually be under threat.
Never said that Mr. Strawman.
They live too far away. They are too well hidden. They have nothing of value. They are too lucky. They are protected by the other races.
These are reasons why it's rare for them to be threatened, yes.
"Go forth and destroy the living, cover the land."
As I said, YOU can run your necromancers as morons. I'm not going to.
Every village, town and city adds more dead to wander the land. But somehow they are never going to go inbetween towns and cities?
There are these things called roads in-between towns and cities. Even the undead would use them.
Also, are you looney? Look at a map of any campaign setting. A thousand miles is bigger than just about any three or four kingdoms combined. Cormyr, the country you mentioned in Faerun, is about 500 miles at the largest. You want multiple thousands of miles of empty land?
Cormyr is about 32,000 square miles. That's plenty of space for a small village or ten of halflings to live in out of the way places.
They are going to go and fight a dragon to ask an object why flies are called flies. It is... nonsensical. It is randomness.
They have unlimited questions. What does it matter if the halfling satisfies his curiosity about flies?
Now, stepping back a bit because you've said it is a question you yourself have. I admit, I have an interest in the origin of words. I'm sure that I could do some google searching and it would be interesting, but you have to consider it in context.

"We are going to slay a dragon and recover a powerful artifact that can answer any question. I plan on asking of the location of my lost sister."
"I am going to ask where the sacred journal of a famed alchemist is buried."
"I am going to ask how to heal the sickness infecting my home."
"I am going to ask why flies are called flies."
Then come up with something else the halfling is curious about. That's the point which you are missing.
Also, I notice you completely skipped and ignored all of my writing and math about the relative populations of halflings and half elves. Wondered how you would respond to that. Silence seems about right.
Because it didn't matter. No matter how much population math you show, halflings have many more adventurers than half-elves. This is a 5e fact. There's no population math you can show that can change that fact.
 

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For some people that's a feature, not a flaw. There are plenty of options to choose from if you want to come from a martial or arcane tradition, I see nothing wrong with having a single race where PCs break the mold and stand out from the crowd.

Besides, it's just fluff text, of it bothers you change it.
I think you are misunderstanding my point.

The initial question raised was “What’s the deal with halflings (and gnomes)?”

My response is “their lore is weak compared to the other races, and here are several examples of why I think that”.

I am aware that as a DM, I can replace the default lore with something better. I am aware that as a player, I can make up my own lore for the race (or just the character) and ask the DM to apply it (even if the DM doesn’t want to make a wholescale change, perhaps they are willing to apply my changes to my character’s tribe).

That doesn’t change the fact that my response to “what’s the deal with halflings?” is “their lore is weak”. Also, since lore is important to me, I am less likely to choose to play a halfling in the first place (even though I can change the lore).
 

The lore of the halflings can be rewritten for a new setting. When Hasbro chose to publish a reboot of my little pony nobody could know it would be a very popular franchise. In previous post I suggest the idea of a kid-friendly cartoon show with halflings and gnomes, using magic to avoid violence (hold person, grease, web, sleep), for example a band of bards, singer magic girls, as an afffectionate parody of Jem and the Holograms. Other option is to add halflings to a preexistent setting of Magic the Gathering, for example Eldraine. Halflings are perfects as characters of a teen horror title.
 

Oofta

Legend
I think you are misunderstanding my point.

The initial question raised was “What’s the deal with halflings (and gnomes)?”

My response is “their lore is weak compared to the other races, and here are several examples of why I think that”.

I am aware that as a DM, I can replace the default lore with something better. I am aware that as a player, I can make up my own lore for the race (or just the character) and ask the DM to apply it (even if the DM doesn’t want to make a wholescale change, perhaps they are willing to apply my changes to my character’s tribe).

That doesn’t change the fact that my response to “what’s the deal with halflings?” is “their lore is weak”. Also, since lore is important to me, I am less likely to choose to play a halfling in the first place (even though I can change the lore).
They have about as much lore as the other races, around 600 words in the PHB that actually focuses on lore. So it's not the volume of the lore, so the logical conclusion is that "weak" really means that they don't have kingdoms, they aren't a warrior race. 🤷‍♂️

I don't see a problem with that.
 

Because it didn't matter. No matter how much population math you show, halflings have many more adventurers than half-elves. This is a 5e fact. There's no population math you can show that can change that fact.
Saying "The lore is the lore" is not a strong response to the argument that "the lore does not make sense".
 

Oofta

Legend
Saying "The lore is the lore" is not a strong response to the argument that "the lore does not make sense".

But that's the point. How is "the lore does not make sense" anything other that a personal preference? There's not logical inconsistency, they just aren't interested in kingdoms or conquest. So?
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
They have about as much lore as the other races, around 600 words in the PHB that actually focuses on lore. So it's not the volume of the lore, so the logical conclusion is that "weak" really means that they don't have kingdoms, they aren't a warrior race. 🤷‍♂️

I don't see a problem with that.

It's not that they aren't martial or magical.

It's that halflings are detached from the world. They don't interact with the world as a race, only as individuals.
 

Oofta

Legend
It's not that they aren't martial or magical.

It's that halflings are detached from the world. They don't interact with the world as a race, only as individuals.

Not sure where the "don't interact" comes from. They'd rather avoid a fight, but "Halflings are adept at fitting into a community of humans, dwarves, or elves, making themselves valuable and welcome." and "Halflings work readily with others, and they are loyal to their friends, whether halfling or otherwise. They can display remarkable ferocity when their friends, families, or communities are threatened." contradicts that.

But this is the same old same old. The strawman is getting a bit musty.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Not sure where the "don't interact" comes from. They'd rather avoid a fight, but "Halflings are adept at fitting into a community of humans, dwarves, or elves, making themselves valuable and welcome." and "Halflings work readily with others, and they are loyal to their friends, whether halfling or otherwise. They can display remarkable ferocity when their friends, families, or communities are threatened." contradicts that.

But this is the same old same old. The strawman is getting a bit musty.

Fitting in isn't interaction.

Family member I only see at family reunions are still family. They come to the event. However I don't interact with some of them on a regular basis.

If halflings were not in the PHB and DMG, what changes?

Not much because they don't interact with the world outside of being a PC option. What do you lose by removing Halflings? The worlds best chef maybe?

Take out dwarves? There goes your best axes and hammer smiths, your best heavy weapons and armor, most of your good forges, your best brewers and stonemasons, a lot of raw resources due to lost mines, several magic items, some racial tensions and relationships, many alternative dwarves, a major active god/pantheon in many settings, etc.
 

Oofta

Legend
Fitting in isn't interaction.

Family member I only see at family reunions are still family. They come to the event. However I don't interact with some of them on a regular basis.

If halflings were not in the PHB and DMG, what changes?

Not much because they don't interact with the world outside of being a PC option. What do you lose by removing Halflings? The worlds best chef maybe?

Take out dwarves? There goes your best axes and hammer smiths, your best heavy weapons and armor, most of your good forges, your best brewers and stonemasons, a lot of raw resources due to lost mines, several magic items, some racial tensions and relationships, many alternative dwarves, a major active god/pantheon in many settings, etc.

But most of what makes dwarves iconic in your opinion is related back to martial might.

Yep, halflings do represent the "little people" that make thing work. The clerk we don't really see, the guy who stocks the counter at the store, the commoner who raises the crop that feeds the smith so they can make the weapons of war. Whether specific gods have more impact is going to be world and campaign specific, war gets more notice than sunshine and plentiful crops.

I don't see a problem with any of it. They do fit in, they do have a niche, an aspect of society represented as a race. It's just not as warriors or people that make weapons of war.
 

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