TSR Running list of potential problematic issues in TSR era DnD

[Jfdlsjfd]

In 5E light armor is just as good as heavy for the most part. Slight difference in AC has other advantages.

I'd say that unless you have high DEX, heavy armor is superior to light armor. The woman in the picture might be a DEX warrior as she's jumping over the head of the enemy, but the warrior being grappled by the stocky character doesn't look like that and looks he would be better off wearing more protective armor. 1 or 2 points of AC is significant.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'd say that unless you have high DEX, heavy armor is superior to light armor. The woman in the picture might be a DEX warrior as she's jumping over the head of the enemy, but the warrior being grappled by the stocky character doesn't look like that and looks he would be better off wearing more protective armor. 1 or 2 points of AC is significant.

Not that significant when you have obetter dex to compensate and better missile weapons. Skills, initiative etc.

You wouldn't line up to duke it out with heavy infantry.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

My wife thinks it's kinda funny, she doesn't like the gender based ability score maximums in 1E though. Neither do I it's just stupid.

My wife feels similarly, as anecdotal point - I do likewise.

Contributing to the thread, specific problematic points:

1) Oriental Adventures presents itself as, well, Oriental Adventures, is actually "Japanese Mythology Adventures".

OA has a ton of other problematic issues, including cultural appropriation (though unusually, Zeb Cook did actually talk to Japanese people as part of his research, and credited them), of course.

2) Maztica.

I don't even know where to begin with this one, let's just point to this: Celebrating Subjugation: The Maztican Tragedy

 

[Zardnaar]

My wife feels similarly, as anecdotal point - I do likewise.

Contributing to the thread, specific problematic points:

1) Oriental Adventures presents itself as, well, Oriental Adventures, is actually "Japanese Mythology Adventures".

OA has a ton of other problematic issues, including cultural appropriation (though unusually, Zeb Cook did actually talk to Japanese people as part of his research, and credited them), of course.

2) Maztica.

I don't even know where to begin with this one, let's just point to this: Celebrating Subjugation: The Maztican Tragedy

I read the Maztica novels dreadfully and was only age 17.

Age 12 I went through a Mesoamerican phase so read up on Aztecs/Inca/Olmec/Maya etc. Also had the reader's digest hardcovers on various places lthe above and Egypt.

Maztica was really bad fan fiction unlikeable characters. Never saw the boxed set.

Didn't like OA much either but I hate the anime/kung fu take on Asia. Probably because I also read about Imperial China, Angkor Wat and Indus Valley insane books as the Aztecs etc.

Reality vs cartoon world of D&D done poorly.

 

[Dragonsbane]

The metaphysics, and hence the ethical framework, of the nine point alignment system were problematic. Particularly the weird pigeonholing of individuals by their assigned alignment, and things like alignment languages.

We use alignment in our 5e and now Cypher game. If you make it descriptive instead of prescriptive it works really well, especially if your planar structure uses the Great Wheel or if you are playing Planescape. For me it can give a general idea of how a monster or NPC might act in moral or ethical situations, as well as let certain spells we use like Detect Alignment work on extra-planar entities or undead. Hopefully it doesn't make me an evil 50 year old bigot to have races in my games have general alignments. It is, after all, a game and not real life. Besides, it's been a while since I saw a gobbo or drow running around IRL.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

We use alignment in our 5e and now Cypher game. If you make it descriptive instead of prescriptive it works really well, especially if your planar structure uses the Great Wheel or if you are playing Planescape. For me it can give a general idea of how a monster or NPC might act in moral or ethical situations, as well as let certain spells we use like Detect Alignment work on extra-planar entities or undead. Hopefully it doesn't make me an evil 50 year old bigot to have races in my games have general alignments. It is, after all, a game and not real life. Besides, it's been a while since I saw a gobbo or drow running around IRL.

It usually only gets into "seriously problematic" or "bigoted" territory when multiple factors align. The key issue with Orcs is that, even in 5E, a lot of the background aligns extremely precisely with ultra-racist tropes/ideas about "inferior races", particularly black people and to a lesser extent asian people. If you think combine that with saying that they're "usually chaotic evil" or the like then you're definitely far into "seriously problematic" territory.

 

[commandercrud]

What's the point of this? Shame on you, company that went out of business over 20 years ago!

 

[Dragonsbane]

It usually only gets into "seriously problematic" or "bigoted" territory when multiple factors align. The key issue with Orcs is that, even in 5E, a lot of the background aligns extremely precisely with ultra-racist tropes/ideas about "inferior races", particularly black people and to a lesser extent asian people. If you think combine that with saying that they're "usually chaotic evil" or the like then you're definitely far into "seriously problematic" territory.

I will read up on those backgrounds, but as someone who supports BLM and LGBTQ rights from voting to donating money and going to protests, I honestly find all of it a little overblown. I never equated orcs with the bigotry described above, nor have any of my players, some of whom are in their 20s. I guess I have some stuff to think about!

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I will read up on those backgrounds, but as someone who supports BLM and LGBTQ rights from voting to donating money and going to protests, I honestly find all of it a little overblown. I never equated orcs with the bigotry described above, nor have any of my players, some of whom are in their 20s. I guess I have some stuff to think about!

You might not have, but the language in Volo's is basically identical to that of ultra-racist textbooks from the 20th century (a toned down versions existed into the 21st), and if you are unfortunate enough you can still see Facebook posts and the like promoting the same ideas - sometimes the focus changes (i.e. which exact race), but the vile ideas stay consistent. Maybe imagine being a black person and aware of that, perhaps having been subjected to that kind of racism, and reading Volo's, and seeing that Orcs are being characterised in exactly the terms your ethnicity has been, and the game is saying this is real and true (in the game) and they're chaotic evil and so on. At best that's going to make someone feel pretty uncomfortable, I'd suggest.

If you're white, and especially if you're actually not familiar with the sort of incredibly sick racist stuff people come out with, it's probably easy to miss this. Indeed, one suspects that's what happened with Volo's - the writer probably didn't even think "Hey isn't that what they used to say about black people?!" - because he was white and had never had to think about racism beyond "It's bad, don't do it" and simple stuff like "cops are much more unpleasant to black people". But this is the really hardcore kind of racism, that unless you're subjected to this kind of racism (as many non-white people are, sooner or later) or interested in racism as an issue (rather than simply something that you're against), or a well, yes, a bigot, then you might not be familiar with it.

That you assumed it's "overblown" is a bit sad but perhaps it was poorly explained previously.

 

[Dragonsbane]

You might not have, but the language in Volo's is basically identical to that of ultra-racist textbooks from the 20th century (a toned down versions existed into the 21st), and if you are unfortunate enough you can still see Facebook posts and the like promoting the same ideas - sometimes the focus changes (i.e. which exact race), but the vile ideas stay consistent. Maybe imagine being a black person and aware of that, perhaps having been subjected to that kind of racism, and reading Volo's, and seeing that Orcs are being characterised in exactly the terms your ethnicity has been, and the game is saying this is real and true (in the game) and they're chaotic evil and so on. At best that's going to make someone feel pretty uncomfortable, I'd suggest.

If you're white, and especially if you're actually not familiar with the sort of incredibly sick racist stuff people come out with, it's probably easy to miss this. Indeed, one suspects that's what happened with Volo's - the writer probably didn't even think "Hey isn't that what they used to say about black people?!" - because he was white and had never had to think about racism beyond "It's bad, don't do it" and simple stuff like "cops are much more unpleasant to black people". But this is the really hardcore kind of racism, that unless you're subjected to this kind of racism (as many non-white people are, sooner or later) or interested in racism as an issue (rather than simply something that you're against), or a well, yes, a bigot, then you might not be familiar with it.

That you assumed it's "overblown" is a bit sad but perhaps it was poorly explained previously.

Hence why I will look at the topic again! Additionally, I am no stranger to racism as there was quite a bit of antisemitism against me growing up. Thanks for taking the time to explain.