D&D 5E RIP alignment

[Remathilis]

Besides, humans are boring. I am one in real life. I want to play something else. Not a short and happy human (halfling), not a short and grumpy human (dwarf), and not a short/tall pointy-eared human (elf). I’d much rather play a satyr, changeling, warforged, orc, goblin, bullywug, tortle, minotaur, svirfneblin, or any one of a few dozen more. They’re infinitely more interesting.

For what it's worth, I tend to put races in D&D into three camps, the common races (your PHB races), the rare races (those from supplements that aren't common but aren't evil) and the monstrous races (which are common, but due to thier nature were antagonistic).

Imagine for a moment that a group of adventurers an elf, a goliath, and an orc entered a podunk town in Faerun. Most of the locals know what an elf is; they're typically considered peaceful if not a little strange but generally dismissed as a threat unless they start causing problems. The goliath is strange; not many people have seen one or they might have heard stories about one, but not a whole lot is known about them. They are viewed with a little suspcion but given the benefit out the doubt. The orc though has a reputation that precedes him, and most people will react fearfully. He will have to do a lot to earn thier trust.

When I say "as common as", I mean the assumption will be that all three races now upon entering podunk will be given the same welcome. There won't be any reason to assume a goliath, an orc, or an elf are anything but normal adventurers and treating them with difference is frowned upon. The orc will have no stygma of violence to contend with, the goliath no aura of exoticism, the elf no common familiarity. All will be treated the same.

 

[auburn2]

Superman and Jon Snow are LG because they believe in family, honour and tradition, are altruistic and merciful, prepared to self sacrifice and they reject harming others unless it's in self defence or the defence of others.

Neutral good is a better descriptor for John Snow. He abandoned his post and killed his queen (who was part of his family). He also when against, tradition, convention and the law to side with the wildlings. He did those things for the right reasons, but they were against tradition, family etc.

Raistlin is true neutral in the Dragonlance modules and I believe he is neutral evil after his fall. I am not as sure about the second, but I am sure about the first.

 

[jerryrice4949]

I have been playing since 1984 and almost never use alignment. It is arbitrary and contrived and few beings/people adhere to anything so rigid. Besides, if using alignment no character should start with an alignment. It should be noted later as actions really dictate alignment and not alignment dictating actions.

 

[Faolyn]

The fantasy genre often has a very simple morality. There are good guys and bad guys. We don't stop to ponder if all Stormtroopers in Star Wars are evil, because they are the baddies, and they are merely there to get shot.

Maybe we should be pondering that. They're people, not mindless robots. Even actual droids aren't mindless robots.

(...I liked Finn.)

 

[Umbran]

You think stock market types can be good.

Mod Note:
And you seem to think that insult comedy is acceptable in a thread a moderator has already had to step into an argument.

Hint: it isn't.

Everyone, please, keep the discussion respectful. If you cannot manage that, you may find yourself removed from the discussion. If I have to be vaguely threatening to get the point across, remember this - a threadban takes all of a click, typing your username, and another click. It is a lot less effort than riding herd on your worse natures.

 

[Oofta]

Maybe we should be pondering that. They're people, not mindless robots. Even actual droids aren't mindless robots.

(...I liked Finn.)

That gets into a whole other discussion, one that will get the thread closed.

I will just say that I think that whether or not a campaign has identifiable good guys and bad guys is IMHO personal preference. The world is messy, some people want simple escapism, some people do not.

 

[Flamestrike]

Neutral good is a better descriptor for John Snow. He abandoned his post and killed his queen (who was part of his family). He also when against, tradition, convention and the law to side with the wildlings. He did those things for the right reasons, but they were against tradition, family etc.

Raistlin is true neutral in the Dragonlance modules and I believe he is neutral evil after his fall. I am not as sure about the second, but I am sure about the first.

Jon is LG and Raistlin is CE.

Help please? I need Raistlin Majere's stats

Google his ststs and come back to me. He was CE as a black robe in both ADnD and 3.5.

 

[Faolyn]

No. Because evil creatures are still allowed to be evil. The orcs of The One Ring are still evil. The Daleks in Adventures in Space and Time are still evil. The Empire/First Order in Edge of the Empire are still evil. D&D orcs and drow can't be allowed to be evil anymore.

That's grossly simplifying... basically everything.

The orcs of LotR and the daleks of Dr Who are both effectively constructs, made to perform a specific purpose, which in the case of their stories, is an evil purpose. And the Empire and First Order of Star Wars is an organization, not a species of people.

But D&D orcs and drow are not constructs. While their origin stories of Gruumsh and Lolth are more or less the standard ones, they aren't the only way orcs and drow can exist in D&D (case in point: Eberron).

You can have evil orcs and evil drow. But if you say "they're evil because they're orcs or drow," then that's both lazy and boring. Give orcs and drow reasons to be evil; give them a motivation, in the same way your human, elf, and dwarf villains have motivations to be evil.

 

[Faolyn]

That gets into a whole other discussion, one that will get the thread closed.

I will just say that I think that whether or not a campaign has identifiable good guys and bad guys is IMHO personal preference. The world is messy, some people want simple escapism, some people do not.

There are constructs, demons, and undead that make for easily identifiable bad guys that can be used for escapism.

 

[overgeeked]

I watch a lot of D&D streams and I have yet to see one that matches this accusation.

That’s amateurs vs pros. The pros know better and so avoid it. The amateurs still think it’s funny. Unless you’re already playing in pro circles, you’re stuck playing with amateurs.