D&D 5E RIP alignment

[Lanefan]

Alignment, right now, is a tool that doesn't add anything. It's like the difference between Slashing, Bludgeoning and Piercing -- nonexistent, and just as with SBP, there are only two ways to fix it -- either make it matter, or throw it the hell out.

Exactly. So let's make it matter.

Ditto for the different damage types: make them matter.

 

[Remathilis]

.Does the fact that the Wizard doesn't have these attributes lead to extensive, tedious, tendentious, acrimonious debate amongst people interested in discussing the game? Does it lead to serious problem behaviors from player and DMs alike (regardless of whether this is because the system is being used badly or because the system is hard to use well)? Do the things you're affecting have no meaningful mechanical impact on the game, the way alignment lacks such impact now? Because I'm pretty sure the answer to every single one of those questions is "no," which kind of pokes a hole in your attempt to make the "sure, remove racial inherent alignments" position look like "OMG make my favorite class the BESTEST EVAR!" In fact it pretty clearly shows this to be a strawman, relying on the reader presuming an equivalence between "break the mechanical balance of the game" and "don't use inherent racial alignments," which you have failed to show in any way.

I am attacking the notion that there is no value in the default. That anything goes is better than a standard and deviation array. That the game is better when it is DIY and devoid of assumption. You want orcs to be less racial caricatures? Fine. Fix the lore. Don't remove all lore and say "DM's do whatever". If orc has no default assumption, why should wizard? Why should longsword? Why should magic missile? Why should dragon? Why should demon? Fix the lore to remove the racist language, but don't get started on orc should have no default setting because default settings are literally what make the rules work.

 

[Mecheon]

Exactly. So let's make it matter.

It used to matter, and it was a mess when it did.

Going down that route is going back down the route of 'Oh, here's these special poisons that aren't poisons because they only affect evil people, because they have the ability to just tell someone's worldview'

Frankly the further we get from the "Alignment matters" days, the better

 

[Oofta]

Its been a massive part of alignment for years. Let's not forget the paladin-gotchya 'Orc problem' of 'what do you do with baby orc?'. Or, the Book of Exalted Deeds from 3.5E which I still consider the strongest argument against alignment ever.


Monsters are fine. Opposing forces are fine. Alignment's issues have been in trying to clumsily appy it to everything and its subsequent failure at doing that

Well, I have never and will never have the baby orc problem. It's a game, I don't see the point and there are no baby orcs in my world.

I just disagree. Whether it's zombies, xenomorphs, white walkers or grue, many games will always have monsters no matter how you describe them. Many games will continue to use orcs, gnolls, beholders and red dragons as bad guy I don't care if we have a useful label or not.

 

[Lanefan]

It used to matter, and it was a mess when it did.

Going down that route is going back down the route of 'Oh, here's these special poisons that aren't poisons because they only affect evil people, because they have the ability to just tell someone's worldview'

And that sort of stuff* is great! Things that trigger off alignment are exactly what I mean when I say "make it matter". More, please.

* - in general. The specific poison example you cite isn't one I'd use unless said poison had some sort of detection enchantment on it.

 

[Oofta]

Its been a massive part of alignment for years. Let's not forget the paladin-gotchya 'Orc problem' of 'what do you do with baby orc?'.

Just one more thing on this. The "baby orc problem" just switches over to the "Saving Private Ryan soldier problem". You capture an enemy soldier, you can't take them prisoner. What do you do? Let them go and they'll just kill Mellish later on. Killing them isn't great either, but it's war.

There are simply some dilemmas I don't want to spend time on in my escape from the world game time.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:

And, it becomes very clear that the community here, as a whole, it not up to having this discussion like rational adults who respect their fellow gamers. Thread closed.