D&D 5E Monster creation help wanted.

[Gorg]

I'm currently trying out the 5E Monster creation rules. My first monster will be a Gnoll Shaman. It went pretty well, so far- the tutorial in the DMG is pretty straitforward.

However, I'm kinda torn on WHAT kind of spell caster it should be. My first thought was Cleric, as the Gnollish god plays a pretty significant role in Gnoll life. Then I thought Druid! And then Warlock. The last seemed tailor made for this- a caster who makes a pact with an extra planar power.

However, Gnolls are stupid. As in 6 intelligence stupid. NOT a good fit for an arcane caster... Plus the fluff that goes along with the class just doesn't gel well with the concept of Gnolls.

Likwise, Druid gave me problems from the start. Gnolls are anything but nature loving, or protective- they are more like a plague upon the land...

Cleric still seems like a good fit, I wanted a Gnoll Shaman- an advisor to the pack leader, medicine man, and a source of supporting magic and some firepower.

Anyone have any other bright ideas, or should I just give it spell casting ability with access to the Cleric spell list. (and perhaps a couple of chosen spells from the Druid and Warlock lists for a more primitive, tribal feel) And just say that Yeenogu grants these gnolls a boost to wisdom and a 2nd level cleric's spell slots.

Base it on the Gnoll Pack Lord, but trade the Incite Rampage, and multi-attack for spellcasting ability. (and some ability score tweaks) It's too bad that this edition didn't include an Evil or Death domain, those would have been perfect for a demonically inspired race like this!

 

[TheAlkaizer]

I never limit myself to a class when I design spellcasting monsters. I have a very functional approach to picking spells that will make for an interesting encounter. So I would invite you to start with the terrain and other monsters you intend to throw at the players.

Will the players be moving up a closed staircase while it's quickly filling up with water? Give it spells that will immobilize them or limit their movement. That will get your players stressed.

Do you have players or a party composition that tend to be very straightforward and does high level of damage? Give it support spells with concentration, it'll make the frontline monsters much tougher and will give a choice to the player.

Want to really put the pressure on a melee-focused party? Give it a concentration spell like Call Lightning and put some frontline monsters with reach. Watch them try and get to the caster and provoke opportunity attacks. Or put some difficult terrain around.

Their party is filled with casters and ranged characters? Have your monsters attack from multiple directions and give your shaman some disrupting spells.

 

[Blue]

Monsters are not PCs. Even NPCs are not PCs. Look at the Druid in the MM - no wildshape as a 4th level caster. Most of the other NPC casters don't line up, even if it's just the wrong number and size of HD.

Give your Gnoll the spells they should have. That straightforward.

 

[Flamestrike]

I'm currently trying out the 5E Monster creation rules. My first monster will be a Gnoll Shaman. It went pretty well, so far- the tutorial in the DMG is pretty straitforward.

However, I'm kinda torn on WHAT kind of spell caster it should be. My first thought was Cleric, as the Gnollish god plays a pretty significant role in Gnoll life. Then I thought Druid! And then Warlock. The last seemed tailor made for this- a caster who makes a pact with an extra planar power.

However, Gnolls are stupid. As in 6 intelligence stupid. NOT a good fit for an arcane caster... Plus the fluff that goes along with the class just doesn't gel well with the concept of Gnolls.

Likwise, Druid gave me problems from the start. Gnolls are anything but nature loving, or protective- they are more like a plague upon the land...

Cleric still seems like a good fit, I wanted a Gnoll Shaman- an advisor to the pack leader, medicine man, and a source of supporting magic and some firepower.

Anyone have any other bright ideas, or should I just give it spell casting ability with access to the Cleric spell list. (and perhaps a couple of chosen spells from the Druid and Warlock lists for a more primitive, tribal feel) And just say that Yeenogu grants these gnolls a boost to wisdom and a 2nd level cleric's spell slots.

Base it on the Gnoll Pack Lord, but trade the Incite Rampage, and multi-attack for spellcasting ability. (and some ability score tweaks) It's too bad that this edition didn't include an Evil or Death domain, those would have been perfect for a demonically inspired race like this!

Reskin an Orc eye of Grummsh.

Or something similar.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Reskin an Orc eye of Grummsh.

Or something similar.

This. Or you could use one of the other NPC stat blocks and add gnoll traits. Swap spells as appropriate. Ignore spell class.

Or take a basic gnoll and level it as a sidekick using the rules in Tasha's.

Note that gnolls do not have to be stupid.

 

[cbwjm]

They have a death domain in the DMG which could give you ideas. If you want to make them a cleric to represent the tribal shaman then I'd suggest just picking a wisdom score that you want them to have, at least a 14 would be my recommendation for a low-level shaman, 16+ for more powerful ones.

If you want to use the druid spells, you can just assign them, or if you want some sort of method to your madness, then grant them access to spells as a druid and then layer the death domain over top so that they have a bunch of nature themed spells with some necromancy spells available to them as well. You might even want to grant them a special ability to summon a couple of giant hyenas as a special ability of the caster.

 

[Ath-kethin]

However, Gnolls are stupid. As in 6 intelligence stupid. NOT a good fit for an arcane caster... Plus the fluff that goes along with the class just doesn't gel well with the concept of Gnolls.

The fact that garden-variety gnolls aren't Mensa caliber intellectuals has no bearing on what a special case's abilities would be IMO. Your caster can he the exception that proves the rule. In fact, you could decide that those chosen by the patron (running with the warlock idea) are granted additional insights and brilliance BY the pact they agreed to. That idea alone can create a workable tension; maybe the warlocks resent their pact on some level but know how much they stand to lose by violating it.

As far as druids are concerned, plagues, wildfires, and avalanches are part of nature. So a druid whose abilities focus on the dispassionate, destructive side of nature is right in line with your ideas. Depending on how topical you want to get, a Thanos (or eugenicist) style "people are the real plague" attitude could suit such a character well.

Clerics I see as similar to warlocks inasmuch as they are chosen or abetted by a higher power - a power higher than themselves, anyway. Along the same token as the warlock, increased mental facilities could be a gift from the deity, or it could be that the character was chosen BECAUSE of its greater awareness or whatever.

It's a fantasy game. You can make it work however you want.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

I dunno, Cleric seems fine to me. I mean, his or her day job will involve being the clan wise person and healer of burnt paws etc - not just a fighter. But clerics do get the ‘evil’ side with Inflict Wounds, Protection from Good, etc. Plus good buffing of their ‘troops’. Also, a cleric gnoll could be called the High Eena.

 

[Quickleaf]

I'm currently trying out the 5E Monster creation rules. My first monster will be a Gnoll Shaman. It went pretty well, so far- the tutorial in the DMG is pretty straitforward.

However, I'm kinda torn on WHAT kind of spell caster it should be. My first thought was Cleric, as the Gnollish god plays a pretty significant role in Gnoll life. Then I thought Druid! And then Warlock. The last seemed tailor made for this- a caster who makes a pact with an extra planar power.

However, Gnolls are stupid. As in 6 intelligence stupid. NOT a good fit for an arcane caster... Plus the fluff that goes along with the class just doesn't gel well with the concept of Gnolls.

Likwise, Druid gave me problems from the start. Gnolls are anything but nature loving, or protective- they are more like a plague upon the land...

Cleric still seems like a good fit, I wanted a Gnoll Shaman- an advisor to the pack leader, medicine man, and a source of supporting magic and some firepower.

Anyone have any other bright ideas, or should I just give it spell casting ability with access to the Cleric spell list. (and perhaps a couple of chosen spells from the Druid and Warlock lists for a more primitive, tribal feel) And just say that Yeenogu grants these gnolls a boost to wisdom and a 2nd level cleric's spell slots.

Base it on the Gnoll Pack Lord, but trade the Incite Rampage, and multi-attack for spellcasting ability. (and some ability score tweaks) It's too bad that this edition didn't include an Evil or Death domain, those would have been perfect for a demonically inspired race like this!

I think your problem is that "shaman" isn't a design directive. It's a very vague gesture toward a group of associated concepts, but it's not a concrete bullet-pointed design guideline.

What does "shaman" mean to you in this context of the gnoll? What sorts of powers and/or spells specifically are you looking to give it?

Or are you in need of some ideas?

 

[Gorg]

I dunno, Cleric seems fine to me. I mean, his or her day job will involve being the clan wise person and healer of burnt paws etc - not just a fighter. But clerics do get the ‘evil’ side with Inflict Wounds, Protection from Good, etc. Plus good buffing of their ‘troops’. Also, a cleric gnoll could be called the High Eena.

You know, you had me right along until that terrible pun at the end... That's punishable by allowing a 4 yr old with sticky hands to handle your lucky dice for a few minutes.