D&D 5E can a Rogue reroll a SA dice with the piercer feat?

[auburn2]

I have a Rogue that primarily uses a heavy crossbow. He occasionally uses a whip or short sword, not often though.

I was considering piercer vs elven accuracy. Key question is can the Rogue reroll a sneak attack dice instead of the d10. For example if he rolls an 9 with the crossbow and a 4 and a 2 on sneak attack it would make sense to reroll the 2.

I ran a simulation and a 3rd level Rogue with a heavy crossbow is going to average more damage with Piercer against a 15AC foe unless you get advantage in more than 60% of your attacks. I think 60% advantage is very optimistic. This assumes SA on every attack and it did account for crits, both the extra d10 with piercer and the extra chance for a crit with the 3rd attack dice on EA.

 

[Mort]

So the question is - is the sneak attack damage the same damage type as the weapon attack used?

Text of sneak attack is no help as it does not mention anything at all re: damage type.

Unless someone finds something saying otherwise, seems ok to rule that the sneak attack damage is the same as the weapon dealing the attack - so piercer should apply as long as the weapon attack is piercing.

 

[Dausuul]

I have a Rogue that primarily uses a heavy crossbow. He occasionally uses a whip or short sword, not often though.

I was considering piercer vs elven accuracy. Key question is can the Rogue reroll a sneak attack dice instead of the d10. For example if he rolls an 9 with the crossbow and a 4 and a 2 on sneak attack it would make sense to reroll the 2.

I would say so. It says "one of the attack's damage dice," not "one of the weapon's damage dice."

The critical hit rules likewise refer to "the attack's damage dice." So if Sneak Attack dice are doubled on a crit, they should also be valid targets for the Piercer benefits.

In fact, I believe you could even use Piercer's third benefit with SA dice as well--that is, when you score a crit on a Sneak Attack, you can roll an extra Sneak Attack die instead of an extra weapon damage die. This could be useful when Sneak Attacking with a dagger or other d4 weapon.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I have a Rogue that primarily uses a heavy crossbow. He occasionally uses a whip or short sword, not often though.

I was considering piercer vs elven accuracy. Key question is can the Rogue reroll a sneak attack dice instead of the d10. For example if he rolls an 9 with the crossbow and a 4 and a 2 on sneak attack it would make sense to reroll the 2.

As mentioned, the Piercer feat specifies the attack's damage not the weapon, so I think any dice that is part of the attack is valid. Sneak Attack, Smite, Superiority dice etc.

I ran a simulation and a 3rd level Rogue with a heavy crossbow is going to average more damage with Piercer against a 15AC foe unless you get advantage in more than 60% of your attacks. I think 60% advantage is very optimistic. This assumes SA on every attack and it did account for crits, both the extra d10 with piercer and the extra chance for a crit with the 3rd attack dice on EA.

Its a moot point for most rogues because multiclassing or spending a feat to get Heavy Crossbow (or Whip) proficiency isn't common.

 

[houser2112]

As mentioned, the Piercer feat specifies the attack's damage not the weapon, so I think any dice that is part of the attack is valid. Sneak Attack, Smite, Superiority dice etc.

Its a moot point for most rogues because multiclassing or spending a feat to get Heavy Crossbow (or Whip) proficiency isn't common.

The PHB specifically says for Divine Smite that the smite damage is radiant:
"Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon's damage."

 

[jmartkdr2]

The PHB specifically says for Divine Smite that the smite damage is radiant:
"Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon's damage."

Still part of the same attack, though. It's just not the weapon's damage.

 

[tommybahama]

Its a moot point for most rogues because multiclassing or spending a feat to get Heavy Crossbow (or Whip) proficiency isn't common.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with Tasha's optional rules you can swap a weapon proficiencies provided by your race. So a Dwarf Rogue can swap a warhammer and battleaxe proficiency for a heavy crossbow and whip.

 

[auburn2]

Its a moot point for most rogues because multiclassing or spending a feat to get Heavy Crossbow (or Whip) proficiency isn't common.

Weapon master is an great feat for a 1st level Rogue with custom lineage. Doing that, you can start with an 18 dexterity and pick up proficiency with heavy crossbow, whip, net and one other weapon (usually either scimitar or a blunt martial weapon).

On point buy that is one of few ways you can start with an 18 dexterity. Other options are the two feats I mentioned here, athlete and skill expert. Slasher and moderately armored would theoretically work too, but there are no SA slashing weapons Rogues are proficient in and medium armor is not useful for an 18Dex character.

Heavy crossbow is also the highest damage weapon that works with SA, so if you want the maximum SA damage, this is the best option.

 

[auburn2]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with Tasha's optional rules you can swap a weapon proficiencies provided by your race. So a Dwarf Rogue can swap a warhammer and battleaxe proficiency for a heavy crossbow and whip.

or an Elf can swap longsword and shortsword (which he gets with Rogue anyway) for heavy crossbow and whip.

 

[Maxperson]

I would say no. While it says attack, it seems to me that the intent is to allow you to re-roll weapon damage, not additional damage. This is from the Sage Advice, which says that Sneak Attack is not weapon damage.

"Does the benefit of the Savage Attacker feat apply to additional effects like the rogue’s Sneak Attack or the paladin’s Divine Smite? No. The benefit of Savage Attacker applies only to rolls of the weapon’s damage dice, not to any extra damage that a feature or other ability might grant."

That would be my interpretation of the rules. As a DM, I wouldn't have an issue with it and would allow it anway.