Falcon and winter solider

[doctorbadwolf]

We have time travel galore, but rejuvination is "garbage". Got it. No need to discuss that any more. Thanks.

Oh come on, this is a blatantly ridiculous reply that has nothing at all do with what I even said.

Reversing a poignant and meaningful ending for a character later on in a franchise is almost universally considered weak writing. It robs that ending of its meaning and poignancy, and thus the bar for it being a good story beat is astronomically higher than it is for introducing a new character or moving a character forward into a new chapter (ie telling stories about an old man Steve who just can’t seem to force himself to fully retire).

You keep trying to imply some sort of universalism to my statements, by the way you reply to them, that isn’t there, which is a weird thing to do. To then do the old “I’m gonna throw a strawman argument at you and then run away” that you’ve done here is just...wild! Especially coming from a moderator who has told others not to do that numerous times.

 

[Umbran]

Oh come on, this is a blatantly ridiculous reply that has nothing at all do with what I even said.

What part of "there is no need to discuss that any more" failed to register? There really is no point to continuing. You've had the last word. Enjoy it.

 

[billd91]

He's referring to the comics continuity, in which he was frozen in ice, but also experienced slow aging - he came out of the ice in the 1960s, and, aside from times that his powers were removed, he hasn't aged significantly in the decades since.

To be honest, nor has anyone else. Maybe Power Pack? Everyone slow ages in a literary universe that's semi-frozen in time.

The big difference for most characters is Captain American involves a fixed point in time and in an important way. Magneto is also importantly tied to the WWII timeframe. Most everyone else has any specific reference in time downplayed. Who remembers that Black Widow was a kid at Stalingrad? Or that Ben Grimm and Reed Richards are WWII vets? Or that Charles Xavier was a Korean War vet?

That said, Cap's emergence from suspended animation could be just as nebulous as any other time frame in the Marvel Universe. While for us it was the 1960s, with the sliding timeline it can always be somewhat more recently.

 

[Umbran]

To be honest, nor has anyone else. Maybe Power Pack? Everyone slow ages in a literary universe that's semi-frozen in time.

Yeah, but as you noted, for most everyone else, their important dates are not fixed in real-world history. Since they are maintianing that fixed point in the comics, this addresses any issues about that simply.

That said, Cap's emergence from suspended animation could be just as nebulous as any other time frame in the Marvel Universe. While for us it was the 1960s, with the sliding timeline it can always be somewhat more recently.

Now, we can say that. Back when they established his extended lifespan (back in the real-world 1980s, I believe) they only had the one character who really needed that question addressed.

They weren't thinking, "But, in another 40 years, this is still going to be a problem, we should just generalize it" because the idea that they'd still be telling these stories 40 years on probably seemed kinda silly. Remember, the Marvel comics universe was not pre-planned to span a century. This is organic development in storytelling in ways not seen in most other genres.

So, now, they have a thing they can play with around Steve's age now and then, if that adds to the story.

 

[tomBitonti]

Maybe the whole frozen in ice for 70 years thing screwed it up in his system. Plus, look at Isaiah and his age. The version given to him did not slow his aging. So far, Bucky is the only one to get a version of the serum that has truly stopped his aging.

But, wasn't Bucky also in suspended animation ("on ice") for a long time, too?
TomB

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

But, wasn't Bucky also in suspended animation ("on ice") for a long time, too?
TomB

Replying to you and the others who quoted me or mentioned this, I would have to go back and look at the official MCU stuff, but he was obviously active in all decades since the 40's. The question is how active, or how long he was allowed out to do his crimes? From what I can see, yes, he was cryogenically frozen, but only in between all the assassination missions he was given. So the real question is how many of those was he sent on? How many of the 50 years he was a Hydra assassin were spent frozen and how many were spent in training and on missions? Definitely not as many as Steve spent frozen. Bucky is 106, and the actor is 38, but looks younger than that. So even if Bucky spent 40 years total on ice of those 50, if there was no delayed aging from the serum, he should be played by an actor who looks 60-65 years old. Maybe instead of the freezing preventing the serum from halting aging, it did the opposite. Maybe Bucky and Steve stayed younger longer because the freezing enhanced the serum, rather than inhibited it.

 

[MarkB]

Replying to you and the others who quoted me or mentioned this, I would have to go back and look at the official MCU stuff, but he was obviously active in all decades since the 40's. The question is how active, or how long he was allowed out to do his crimes? From what I can see, yes, he was cryogenically frozen, but only in between all the assassination missions he was given. So the real question is how many of those was he sent on? How many of the 50 years he was a Hydra assassin were spent frozen and how many were spent in training and on missions? Definitely not as many as Steve spent frozen. Bucky is 106, and the actor is 38, but looks younger than that. So even if Bucky spent 40 years total on ice of those 50, if there was no delayed aging from the serum, he should be played by an actor who looks 60-65 years old. Maybe instead of the freezing preventing the serum from halting aging, it did the opposite. Maybe Bucky and Steve stayed younger longer because the freezing enhanced the serum, rather than inhibited it.

I'd guess he wasn't active all that often. Aside from the fact that Hydra as a whole was in hiding all those years and therefore keeping their operations low-key, the Winter Soldier couldn't have remained the largely-mythical unconfirmed ghost story that he was if he'd been active more than a handful of times in any given decade.

 

[tomBitonti]

I'd guess he wasn't active all that often. Aside from the fact that Hydra as a whole was in hiding all those years and therefore keeping their operations low-key, the Winter Soldier couldn't have remained the largely-mythical unconfirmed ghost story that he was if he'd been active more than a handful of times in any given decade.

The other matter is that Isaiah should be between 90 and 110 years old in 2020. That is, if he were between 20 to 40 in 1950. Plus, he may have had rough treatment for decades. That would add years to his effective age.
TomB

 

[Rabulias]

In Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Black Widow credits over "two dozen" assassinations to the Winter Soldier "over the last 50 years." Let's say that 24 is a low number, and the actual count is closer to 100. Even if each assassination thaws Bucky out for 4 weeks (which I think might be high), that's 100 months out of the ice, which is just a little over 8 years that Bucky has aged over 50 years.

 

[Umbran]

The other matter is that Isaiah should be between 90 and 110 years old in 2020.

If it matters - the actor for Isaiah (Karl Lumbly) was born in 1951 - so he is approximately 20 years younger than Isaiah would be. Actually, he's 25 years younger than Isaiah would be in the show, as the MCU is 5 years ahead of current day.