D&D 5E Greyhawk: Pitching the Reboot

[Rob Kuntz]

I get your point, but I was more generally curious whether you had actual experience running Greyhawk with 5e D&D. I think that reading "Rob Kuntz's campaign adventures in Greyhawk using 5E" would be interesting and insightful, particularly for purposes of this thread.

That said, 5e is a game with its own "specific qualities of expression" and idiomatic features, and the edition can have an impact on how those settings translate. @Bedrockgames, for example, has talked before about his own issues regarding the difference in feel between running Ravenloft in 2E and running it in 3E. Eberron feels different to me when I run it using 3.5E or 4E or 5E D&D as a result of these "specific qualities of expression" found as part of each edition, which can enhance or detract, from that setting's experience in different ways.

Again, this is not me being skeptical about translating your vision of Greyhawk from 1E to 5E. It was more about whether you have tried playing Greyhawk using 5E and insights you gleaned from the process.

The medium defines the message. 1E was more constrictive than 0E. If I write Fantasy, i.e., express the fantastic possibilities in an imaginative world, and the system declines translation/transliteration of it, then am I in fact engaging in a "Fantasy" Role Playing Game, still?? The system should be neutral regarding the inputs of fantastic expression; let us not conflate mechanical systems with imaginative play that is exercised and promoted through these. James Jacobs, who I also interfaced with in the huge Maure Castle project, at times was confounded about how to take my expressions and reduce them in 3E system terms, but he managed. This, of course speaks to a less receptive system for expressing imaginative possibilities than what had previously existed. But even though more wrenches were needed, in parts, it was in the end properly fitted.

 

[Mind of tempest]

The medium defines the message. 1E was more constrictive than 0E. If I write Fantasy, i.e., express the fantastic possibilities in an imaginative world, and the system declines translation/transliteration of it, then am I in fact engaging in a "Fantasy" Role Playing Game, still?? The system should be neutral regarding the inputs of fantastic expression; let us not conflate mechanical systems with imaginative play that is exercised and promoted through these. James Jacobs, who I also interfaced with in the huge Maure Castle project, at times was confounded about how to take my expressions and reduce them in 3E system terms, but he managed. This, of course speaks to a less receptive system for expressing imaginative possibilities than what had previously existed. But even though more wrenches were needed, in parts, it was in the end properly fitted.

okay, then can I ask the million-dollar question how would you sell a new audience on greyhawk as that is the most important question?
not the structure of the advertisement the message itself or the why they should use this setting.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

okay, then can I ask the million-dollar question how would you sell a new audience on greyhawk as that is the most important question?
not the structure of the advertisement the message itself or the why they should use this setting.

OK. Let's assume I am GOD. For I do not control WotC, nor do I have knowledge of their motivations or inclinations, I have nothing from which to assure myself of what they do is at all comparable to what they might do. But IF they did, they would do it in the same way they do it for all other products, as all companies do, as @Morrus and crew are now doing for LEVEL UP, etc. They promote it, they invest in it, and at a level consistent with their intent. IOW, they SELL it. You bring it from the mouldering back shelves and put it in the window display. Perception is paramount here just as it's always been in markets dating back to ancient times. It's no different with Greyhawk. Get behind it and push and keep pushing just as everyone else does.

 

[Aldarc]

The medium defines the message. 1E was more constrictive than 0E. If I write Fantasy, i.e., express the fantastic possibilities in an imaginative world, and the system declines translation/transliteration of it, then am I in fact engaging in a "Fantasy" Role Playing Game, still?? The system should be neutral regarding the inputs of fantastic expression; let us not conflate mechanical systems with imaginative play that is exercised and promoted through these. James Jacobs, who I also interfaced with in the huge Maure Castle project, at times was confounded about how to take my expressions and reduce them in 3E system terms, but he managed. This, of course speaks to a less receptive system for expressing imaginative possibilities than what had previously existed. But even though more wrenches were needed, in parts, it was in the end properly fitted.

Respectfully, I'm not interested in engaging this massive rabbit hole tangent of discussion further, as this lies outside of my initial earnest interest in whether you had experience running Greyhawk using 5e and what those experiences were like.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Respectfully, I'm not interested in engaging this massive rabbit hole tangent of discussion further, as this lies outside of my initial earnest interest in whether you had experience running Greyhawk using 5e and what those experiences were like.

I respect that, but what I was inferring was that the point, whether answered yes or no, has no standing for game design and its implementation through play. Perhaps I over-worded things, but the intent was to display that systems should be neutral and thus whatever system one uses, given that, would allow for expressing consistent RPG values. YMMV, of course, but I assure you it was not my intent to create a rabbit hole and I hope my above condensation is proof of that. Cheers!

 

[dave2008]

Respectfully, I'm not interested in engaging this massive rabbit hole tangent of discussion further, as this lies outside of my initial earnest interest in whether you had experience running Greyhawk using 5e and what those experiences were like.

To be fair, he did answer that question in his first response to your question. The first word actually: "No."

 

[Aldarc]

I respect that, but what I was inferring was that the point, whether answered yes or no, has no standing for game design and its implementation through play. Perhaps I over-worded things, but the intent was to display that systems should be neutral and thus whatever system one uses, given that, would allow for expressing consistent RPG values. YMMV, of course, but I assure you it was not my intent to create a rabbit hole and I hope my above condensation is proof of that. Cheers!

I'm admittedly skeptical that systems are ever "neutral," including any given edition of D&D, hence my own reservations about pursuing this particular line of discussion.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

To be fair, he did answer that question in his first response to your question. The first word actually: "No."

It's all good. Besides, I have been isolated going on six years on a mountain in France in a very small hamlet and have no opportunity to game period, unless it is with my wife. I did meet Jeremy Crawford at Lucca Comics and Games (2015) when he approached to gift a Players HB to me which I promptly had him autograph; but alas, I had little time to read it.

When I get back to the USA, which should be "soon" I would love to play in a 5E game, of course! I play all games, but I also design and write. Must stay busy.

 

[dave2008]

I'm admittedly skeptical that systems are ever "neutral," including any given edition of D&D, hence my own reservations about pursuing this particular line of discussion.

Me too, but I understand the sentiment from a lore writer's perspective.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

I'm admittedly skeptical that systems are ever "neutral," including any given edition of D&D, hence my own reservations about pursuing this particular line of discussion.

Understood. There have been more neutral systems than others, then, in my view. But as you've noted, that's a whole different discussion.