D&D 5E How Is This Balanced?

[TerraDave]

As normally played, a fire sorcerer and light cleric would step on each others toes a little bit.

A wand of lighting bolts is the simple solution.

But its funny, the light cleric can play the fire sorcerer and still do all the cleric stuff. While the fire sorcerer can pretty much just be the fire sorcerer.

 

[Zardnaar]

As normally played, a fire sorcerer and light cleric would step on each others toes a little bit.

A wand of lighting bolts is the simple solution.

But its funny, the light cleric can play the fire sorcerer and still do all the cleric stuff. While the fire sorcerer can pretty much just be the fire sorcerer.

And guiding Bolt is better than chromatic orb

The player has noticed in previous games (he played a death cleric) that the cleric is great at most things including skills via guidance and some domains.

And potent cantrip is also better than the Sorcerer version.

 

[cbwjm]

And guiding Bolt is better than chromatic orb

The player has noticed in previous games (he played a death cleric) that the cleric is great at most things including skills via guidance and some domains.

And potent cantrip is also better than the Sorcerer version.

I'd dispute that the cleric's potent cantrip is better. The draconic sorcerer is gaining g that damage bonus across a number of spell levels for a specific element. The cleric is able to affect different elements but they need to be a cantrip. Adding your charisma bonus to a fireball spell, for instance, is better than upcasting it 1 level and almost as good as upcasting 2 levels. They're both good, but I feel have a different niche. If anything, the evokers ability to add their intelligence bonus to any evocation spell is the superior option, probably why it is level 10.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'd dispute that the cleric's potent cantrip is better. The draconic sorcerer is gaining g that damage bonus across a number of spell levels for a specific element. The cleric is able to affect different elements but they need to be a cantrip. Adding your charisma bonus to a fireball spell, for instance, is better than upcasting it 1 level and almost as good as upcasting 2 levels. They're both good, but I feel have a different niche. If anything, the evokers ability to add their intelligence bonus to any evocation spell is the superior option, probably why it is level 10.

Derp I had brain fart.

 

[cbwjm]

Derp I had brain fart.

Thought it was just fire cantrips?

 

[Zardnaar]

Thought it was just fire cantrips?

No but was comparing cantrip to cantrip. The cleric on applies to all of the damage the sorcerer on only one target.

Eg scorching ray vs death cleric toll the dead.

 

[tetrasodium]

I'd dispute that the cleric's potent cantrip is better. The draconic sorcerer is gaining g that damage bonus across a number of spell levels for a specific element. The cleric is able to affect different elements but they need to be a cantrip. Adding your charisma bonus to a fireball spell, for instance, is better than upcasting it 1 level and almost as good as upcasting 2 levels. They're both good, but I feel have a different niche. If anything, the evokers ability to add their intelligence bonus to any evocation spell is the superior option, probably why it is level 10.

I think the value AOEs like fireball are generally overstated. Sure it will occasionally be very impressive if you can toss it on a tightly clustered band of mooks, but remember how wide the damage disparity is & don't forget that simply angling for different PCs, starting out spread around, being arranged in a defensive line, or any number of other positioning including being spread over multiple smaller encounters or getting replaced with fewer but tougher opponents will drastically ratchet down those numbers. When that happens does it really matter that merlin used a limited resource spell slot to deal twoish rounds of bob fighter Og barbarian or lancelot paladin's at will damage to 2-3 mooks?

 

[Zardnaar]

I think the value AOEs like fireball are generally overstated. Sure it will occasionally be very impressive if you can toss it on a tightly clustered band of mooks, but remember how wide the damage disparity is & don't forget that simply angling for different PCs, starting out spread around, being arranged in a defensive line, or any number of other positioning including being spread over multiple smaller encounters or getting replaced with fewer but tougher opponents will drastically ratchet down those numbers. When that happens does it really matter that merlin used a limited resource spell slot to deal twoish rounds of bob fighter Og barbarian or lancelot paladin's at will damage to 2-3 mooks?

I saw a fireball last week deal a grand total of 5 damage (total).

 

[cbwjm]

I think the value AOEs like fireball are generally overstated. Sure it will occasionally be very impressive if you can toss it on a tightly clustered band of mooks, but remember how wide the damage disparity is & don't forget that simply angling for different PCs, starting out spread around, being arranged in a defensive line, or any number of other positioning including being spread over multiple smaller encounters or getting replaced with fewer but tougher opponents will drastically ratchet down those numbers. When that happens does it really matter that merlin used a limited resource spell slot to deal twoish rounds of bob fighter Og barbarian or lancelot paladin's at will damage to 2-3 mooks?

Considering that twoish rounds of damage can mean that the rest of the party has an easier time of mopping up, I think that's an effective use of a resource. I'm not sure how others build encounters but I'll often have mixed monsters, an ogre leading a squad of orcs. That fireball will likely kill the orcs and deal a decent amount of damage to the ogre. Of course, it might be that there is a better spell for the situation, that's fine, fireball doesn't need to be the answer to every problem.

 

[kerbarian]

It doesn’t help yet, but next level (at 9th) the sorcerer can pick up Animate Objects. That spell is a dramatic change in overall combat power for any class that can cast it, when used on ten tiny objects (a bag of daggers works great). A sorcerer can cast it quite a few times per day by converting lower-level slots to additional 5th-level slots via sorcery points.

Polymorph (turn allies into giant apes and t-rexes) and Counterspell are other significant spells the sorcerer has access to that the clerics don’t. Plus things like twinned Haste that you already mentioned.

There’s also the Transmuted Spell metamagic from Tasha’s that would let the sorcerer convert fireballs to acid-balls or other elements that are uncommonly resisted.

Sorcerers do feel like they’re in a tough spot, and picking blaster spells (except fireball) can feel underwhelming. 5e is generally good at avoiding “trap” choices when building a character, but sorcerer is probably closest because it’s so dependent on spell choice, and picking the right spells takes experience.

There are some great spells that last all combat (web, haste, polymorph, greater invis, animate objects), and those plus fireballs and cantrips can add up to a pretty good package. Outside of combat... the sorcerer spell list is decent, but you have so few spells known that it’s hard to have interesting options available for a variety of situations. The Magical Guidance feature from Tasha’s can help sorcerers somewhat with skills.