D&D 5E Tasha's Drow Art and the Future of Their Depictions in D&D

[Dire Bare]

There is no delimited, inferred or stated posits by myself of how anyone should propose or deal with race. I was, as stated, "in this case alone," referring tio the subject of the drow. In fact I stated that DMs should be in charge of that alone and not have it prescribed by WotC's designers AND that the idea of skin tone change was not a factor for me. I don't appreciate obfuscation of my posts and points, Further, with all due respect, I don't believe that my former friend, mentor and near surrogate father, Gary Gygax, needs to be exonerated
by anyone as if this were a mock trial

What I think @Rob Kuntz is trying to say . . . forgive me if I'm misunderstanding . . .

I guess I'm not forgiven for misunderstanding your point. Um, sorry (again)?

To be honest, I think I'm even more confused about the point you are making, other than we disagree (I think). But that's okay. Certainly, there was no intent to disparage you or Gygax.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

I guess I'm not forgiven for misunderstanding your point. Um, sorry (again)?

To be honest, I think I'm even more confused about the point you are making, other than we disagree (I think). But that's okay. Certainly, there was no intent to disparage you or Gygax.

Ok, water under the bridge keeps flowing. Live long and prosper.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think it's great to imagine that Drow have many varieties of skin-tones. Some of them are that dark, almost black-purple, some of them that light grey or grey-purple, etc. Variety is the spice of life. Like in the real world and with real people in all their variety.

 

[Oofta]

That is rather questionable conclusion considering how widely the Vikings travelled and how ethnically diverse they actually were themselves. But more importantly it literally doesn't matter one bit. Nor does it matter what Gygax intended or didn't intent. What matters is how it is perceived by the audience actually playing the game today.

Only a tiny percentage of the people travelled widely. There is zero evidence that ancient norse people were prejudiced against black people.

Their feelings about the lower class thralls on the other hand were pretty horrendous by today's standards from what I've read.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Only a tiny percentage of the people travelled widely. There is zero evidence that ancient norse people were prejudiced against black people.

Their feelings about the lower class thralls on the other hand were pretty horrendous by today's standards from what I've read.

And none of this matters! The ancient Norse are not playing the D&D!

 

[Oofta]

And none of this matters! The ancient Norse are not playing the D&D!

Then why keep bringing it up?

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Only a tiny percentage of the people travelled widely. There is zero evidence that ancient norse people were prejudiced against black people.

Their feelings about the lower class thralls on the other hand were pretty horrendous by today's standards from what I've read.

Besides that, their conception of the underworld and their myths as later recorded in the Eddas were verbally in existence way back to their ancient beginnings which is confirmed in most folk lore and anthropological studies. This would greatly predate their later migrations by ship.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Then why keep bringing it up?

I didn't, you did. Like you thought that people were accusing the ancient Norse of being racist or cared whether they were.

Besides that, their conception of the underworld and their myths as later recorded in the Eddas were verbally in existence way back to their ancient beginnings which is confirmed in most folk lore and anthropological studies. This would greatly predate their later migrations by ship.

It doesn't matter!

 

[Rob Kuntz]

I didn't, you did. Like you thought that people were accusing the ancient Norse of being racist or cared whether they were.


It doesn't matter!

Sure matters to me. It may matter to others. This is not a collective. People get to judge individually and make choices regarding internal truth or external perception. It's not all black or all white but tends towards the center as different shades of grey.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

These aren't different statements.

But what @Oofta was claiming is that Norse people obviously were not racist against dark-skinned people because most of them never even met someone with such a skin tone. Sure, the individual statements are not different, but their intent and correctness in supporting the intent are. You can't be racist against a group of people that you have no awareness of, which is what @Oofta was trying to say. However, I pointed out that they indeed were aware of them. You don't need to have met someone of a certain race in order to be racist towards them, you merely have to be aware of them, which the Norse people very much were.

Now, I'm not saying that the Vikings were racist against brown/black people, I don't know whether they were or weren't, but @Oofta's insistence that they couldn't have been because a lot of them never even met someone with dark skin is just laughably false. You can be racist against black people without ever having met one, just like you can be transphobic without ever meeting a trans person. You just have to know that they exist.