D&D General Ravenloft, horror, & safety tools...

[ART!]

No I am not offering a replacement solution because I think this effort is very misguided. I am saying this is something to deal with as a group. It isn't something game designers can solve for us. If you have mental health issues, you should seek treatment. If someone at the table is having a problem you should treat them with empathy and find a solution that works best for the group.

Is it possible that safety tools might be "a solution that works best for the group"?

spiders, halflings, gnomes and orphans are all viable subject matter for plot purposes and playing purposes in an RPG

[adds to notes]
Please, list more things that are viable subject matter!

 

[Bedrockgames]

Mental health issues are real problems. Things that hurt you cause real hurt, even if they only exist "in your head."

Yes, I agree mental health issues are a real problem. I don't agree that mental hurt is the same as physical hurt, but I do agree it is suffering and not in someone's head (I just think keeping the distinction between physical harm and mental suffering is very important). But there are also people who don't have mental health issues who are happy to gain sympathy for claiming they have them. And there are also people who will say they have mental health issues, when they don't because they think it is normal or expected. I am arguing the latter is taking place. I am not arguing that all people who say they have triggers are lying. I am saying this has produced a fad and I think a lot of what we are seeing play out is very performative, or a case of people sensitizing themselves to something that wouldn't otherwise bother them.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Is it possible that safety tools might be "a solution that works best for the group"?

It could. I think that is going to vary. But my big issue really isn't safety tools in themselves, it is that they have become something we think ought to be the default tor mandatory (and I just think on the whole they do more harm than good)

 

[Faolyn]

I run my game with no spiders, no halflings or gnomes (honestly, yes, please, I dislike these races anyhow),

You would hate my current homebrew game. Three of the five current players chose halflings (well, one is a halfling-shaped tiefling), and one of the original players who had to leave the game picked a gnome. Which left me no choice but to have an early BBEG as a halfling cultist.

 

[Steampunkette]

You would hate my current homebrew game. Three of the five current players chose halflings (well, one is a halfling-shaped tiefling), and one of the original players who had to leave the game picked a gnome. Which left me no choice but to have an early BBEG as a halfling cultist.

My Ashen Lands game just added a Halfling to it.

It's not that I -hate- them or don't wanna play with them, but I don't see any campaign setting being drastically harmed by just not having "Little Races" in it from the word "Go".

Mainly 'cause they often mean nothing to the narrative. Halflings are just short comfy humans living in human towns, nine times out of ten, and gnomes are just short dwarfs living around dwarf towns mostly mining gems instead of metals. The narrative distinctions feel suuuuuper murky at best.

 

[Faolyn]

no I think conversation first when gaming with strangers are a good idea: doesn’t mean I believe safety tools(and all that term encompasses) are a good idea

Having a conversation first when gaming with strangers is a safety tool!

I'm guessing you don't like having checklists to go down. That's fine. I don't like them either. That's why, when the new guy started in my game, I said "Hey, are there any topics I should avoid when DMing for you?" and "if I happen to include something that bothers you, let me know and I'll stop," instead of just handing them a piece of paper and asking them to fill it out.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Having a conversation first when gaming with strangers is a safety tool!

But it is also just a thing people do. In fact it was as thing people did before safety tools were a concept. Also, I don't think there is a one way to do this. Some groups have conversations. Some don't. Some just have understandings. I think what I am talking about is the way safety tools have become a kind of moral panic around the possibility to triggering people. I think we've reached a stage of exaggeration in the hobby when it comes to this stuff.

 

[Faolyn]

Mainly 'cause they often mean nothing to the narrative. Halflings are just short comfy humans living in human towns, nine times out of ten, and gnomes are just short dwarfs living around dwarf towns mostly mining gems instead of metals. The narrative distinctions feel suuuuuper murky at best.

Pretty much agree there. There's just not enough to the two of 'em to make them really useful. I can see having one of the two, maybe combining them into a single species--which let's face it; TSR/WotC has basically always done anyway (they shared a Complete Book in 2e and a shared chapter Mordy's).

But for the short guys, give me kobolds any day.

 

[Faolyn]

But it is also just a thing people do. In fact it was as thing people did before safety tools were a concept. Also, I don't think there is a one way to do this. Some groups have conversations. Some don't. Some just have understandings. I think what I am talking about is the way safety tools have become a kind of moral panic around the possibility to triggering people. I think we've reached a stage of exaggeration in the hobby when it comes to this stuff.

The fact that people have spent a half-dozen pages trying to show you how it's still important should tell you that it's not an exaggeration.

And no, lots of people didn't just talk it out before hand. I know they certainly didn't in any game I played in in the 90s and 00s.

So the real question is, why are you so adverse to not triggering people's anxieties? Why do you dismiss the concept as "moral panic."

Yes, a lot of people have generalized anxiety where panic attacks can be caused by seemingly random things, or by nothing obvious at all. I've had them. But a lot of people do have easily-avoided triggers. So why does it bother you to simply not include something you know could cause harm to a person?

 

[Faolyn]

Yes, I agree mental health issues are a real problem. I don't agree that mental hurt is the same as physical hurt,

You would be wrong. They are basically the same thing. Or rather, the body perceives them in basically the same way.

Is There Such a Thing as Psychological Pain? and Why It Matters - PMC

Medicine regards pain as a signal of physical injury to the body despite evidence contradicting the linkage and despite the exclusion of vast numbers of sufferers who experience psychological pain. By broadening our concept of pain and making it ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Emotional and Physical Pain Activate Similar Brain Regions

In order to get over grief, resolve anger, and even embrace happiness, we have to really feel those things in the body.

www.psychologytoday.com

Emotional & Physical Pain Are Almost The Same - To Your Brain

Rejection hurts. Whether you’ve been told ‘no thank you’ for a job opportunity, become estranged from a partner or friend, or even been unfollowed on a social media or dating site, your brain has to process being rejected. And neuroscience suggests that it literally - hurts.

www.forbes.com

but I do agree it is suffering and not in someone's head (I just think keeping the distinction between physical harm and mental suffering is very important). But there are also people who don't have mental health issues who are happy to gain sympathy for claiming they have them. And there are also people who will say they have mental health issues, when they don't because they think it is normal or expected. I am arguing the latter is taking place.

So you don't want to use a tool to help people with legitimate issues because someone might try to exploit it?

You do know that you can throw a toxic player out, right?

I am not arguing that all people who say they have triggers are lying. I am saying this has produced a fad and I think a lot of what we are seeing play out is very performative, or a case of people sensitizing themselves to something that wouldn't otherwise bother them.

For centuries, millennia even, it often wasn't societally acceptable for people to talk about the things that hurt them. Those who did were seen as weak, pathetic, wusses, babies, girly, emotional, whiny, neurotic, whatever. They were told to suck it up, be stoic, to man up, to stop bothering other people with their stupid complaints.

But now, it is becoming more and more acceptable to talk about those things and less and less acceptable to ridicule those who do.

This is not a fad. This is people who no longer have to pretend that they get upset.

You just haven't realized that yet.