TSR Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes the original interview which sparked off the controversy look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements.

For reference -- TSR1 is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, TSR2 is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create Gygax Magazine and which currently publishes the Top Secret RPG, and TSR3 is the newly launched company.

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Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:

TSR - Ernie Gygax on New TSR, WotC Beefs, Trademarks, Licensees, 5E, & More

A YouTube channel, 'Live From the Bunker', interviewed Ernie Gygax about the new TSR. I've watched and decided to try to transcribe the most relevant parts of it, but the full hour-long video is below if you want to see the whole interview and full context. Ernie Gygax is one of D&D...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine...

www.enworld.org

A TSR Announces a Star Frontiers Reboot

One of the new TSRs (yes there are now two TSRs!) has announced a reboot of Star Frontiers, the sci-fi game made by the original TSR back in the 1980s. Star Frontiers was a percentile dice roleplaying game set in a galaxy with four races (Human, Dralasite, Vrusk, and Yazirian) which were re-used...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR Is Back.... Again!

TSR is back... again! A new company, using the name and logo of the original publisher of Dungeons & Dragons has just been launched, along with a limited edition new game called Giantlands, and a theme park! But first, some history! Because this isn't the first time TSR has been resurrected...

www.enworld.org

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TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here.

(Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter).

TSR2 -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion."

Gen Con -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia."

Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention.

GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association) -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization."

Jeff Dee -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow"

Jim Ward, an original TSR alumnus and who wrote Giantlands, TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know."

Luke Gygax -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR"

TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax​

Tim Kask, an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing.

"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la.

But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be.

That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift.

Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t....

... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs ....

... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are."

​

 

[Sonny]

You are wrong. Just as it would be wrong for someone to say, "If you support and befriend gays then you are against us." There was hope for the Gay Pride movement and it is not threatened by Ernie. He is not hunting you, you are hunting him. He's an ignorant, stupid person in this matter, but he's not your enemy, he's a human, just like you. The purpose of Gay Pride was to seek and achieve equality, which has happened. Now you become like those who were once your persecutors? Spare me the us and them mantra of revenge, it's so 3rd wave feminist and I grew up with the first wavers whom I still admire.

Legislation Affecting LGBTQ Rights Across the Country 2021 | American Civil Liberties Union

Last updated 12/17/2021 Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people in America continue to face discrimination in their daily lives. While more states every year work to pass laws to protect LGBTQ people, we continue to see state legislatures advancing bills that target transgender people...

www.aclu.org

What you're seeing on this list is not equality.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:

Thread temporarily locked. Watch this space.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:

Folks,

My apologies to everyone who has reported posts in this thread and saw no action. I was unfortunately afk when this blew up - having dinner with my wife and, somewhat ironically, watching The Prom, a rather pleasant, if not perfect, musical about a young woman who wants to take her girlfriend to the prom.

I am going to leave this thread locked while I go through it. Some folks may find themselves removed from the discussion. One or two may find themselves disinvited from EN World. This thread will open again when either Morrus or I come online tomorrow, and can watch it a bit more closely.

EN World supports diversity in gaming, and folks deserve to know the news, and to discuss it. We will not allow this discussion to be permanently sandbagged by a few bad actors.

That being said - EVERYONE should remember that there's lot of strong feelings about this. We request and require that folks come to this discussion fully loaded with empathy. Accusative posts, even politely phrased ones, are going to be a problem on this contentious topic, so everyone absolutely, positively must check themselves before hitting "post reply", or very little of value will come from this.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
More notes from moderators...

There are a couple kinds of pitfalls that folks who I strongly expect want to do the right things are falling into in this thread:

1) Making it personal - "YOU are being a bad actor."

Folks, if you feel someone is being a bad actor, is posting racist crud, or the like, we ask, as always, for you to report them AND DISENGAGE. If you don't - if you take it on yourself to personally attack or confront another user - you may force the moderators to address your actions even if we agree with you in principle.

Speaking very broadly - your ability to change anyone's mind by confrontation on the internet is essentially non-existent. Even if you feel it is still worth it for "the message" - do realize that the acrimony so raised increases the likelihood the thread has to be closed overall, ending discussion and making that message drop into the obscurity of threads nobody posts to. Thus, you can hurt your own message. So please don't do it.

2) Trying to make people commit to a stance. I can understand the urge to get someone to commit to making a statement for, or against things. But using the public space as social pressure amounts to coercion, and we cannot allow that. Please don't do it. Our users must feel free to speak their minds when they want to speak, and say what they want to say, without fear.

And if someone does try to pin you to a wall to take a stand, please report the issue and allow moderators to handle it.

 

[Umbran]

The purpose of Gay Pride was to seek and achieve equality, which has happened.

With respect for your place in RPG history, Mr. Kuntz, no, it has not. There has been forward motion, yes. But the fact that Mr. Gygax felt it okay to bring up gender politics as a sales point rather proves that the work is not done. The fact that we have to have an explicit inclusivity policy on this site to defend our posters from racism, sexism, and other prejudices proves it.

The history of civil rights in the US is not a history of people with a legitimate grievance quietly sitting down and calmly explaining their issues, and having them addressed by the powers that be. It is a history of people having to put up with a lot of crud, and finally getting fed up, not tolerating abuse any more, and making a heck of a lot of noise. Historically, there has been no motion on civil rights issues otherwise - do look at the history of women's suffrage and the Civil Rights era if you don't believe me.

So, we are very sorry if "the mob" is loud, or disturbs you. But the assertion that they only destroy is proven false by history. Instead, the inertia and intransigence of the status quo rather seems to require such action. Tut-tutting at the mob reads like blaming the victims of prejudice and their allies, and telling them that your peace and quiet is more important than their equality.

 

[Bolares]

With respect for your place in RPG history, Mr. Kuntz, no, it has not. There has been forward motion, yes. But the fact that Mr. Gygax felt it okay to bring up gender politics as a sales point rather proves that the work is not done. The fact that we have to have an explicit inclusivity policy on this site to defend our posters from racism, sexism, and other prejudices proves it.

The history of civil rights in the US is not a history of people with a legitimate grievance quietly sitting down and calmly explaining their issues, and having them addressed by the powers that be. It is a history of people having to put up with a lot of crud, and finally getting fed up, not tolerating abuse any more, and making a heck of a lot of noise. Historically, there has been no motion on civil rights issues otherwise - do look at the history of women's suffrage and the Civil Rights era if you don't believe me.

So, we are very sorry if "the mob" is loud, or disturbs you. But the assertion that they only destroy is proven false by history. Instead, the inertia and intransigence of the status quo rather seems to require such action. Tut-tutting at the mob reads like blaming the victims of prejudice and their allies, and telling them that your peace and quiet is more important than their equality.

I'd also say that even if equality was achieved in the US (what I don't think it has), we live in a globalized world, and Mr. Gygax's and his company's statements impact much more than US citizens. As a Brazillian queer person, living in a country were our president and his political agenda constantly target us, is really hard to read that equality has being achieved, and that our grievances are less important than the peace of mind and financial health of people that disregard us and mock us to sell an RPG book.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I'm not sure how the OSR got to a point where it's gained the reputation of being a bastion for bigots. I mean, I know how, because a few really loud bigots keep saying they speak for the OSR, but it never should have happened. There have been many statements of "Oh, those original TSR folks were all some flavor of bigot." If you actually look and talk to the people, it's not the case at all. In fact, I'd posit that there are more progressives from old TSR than there are people like Ernie. People like Janelle Jaquays, Pauli Kidd, James Lowder, Skip Williams, Tim Kask, Jeff Dee, and many many others who are very vocal and adamant about their support for diversity and inclusivity and were there in the early days. It seems that for every old guard who waxes poetic about the good ol days with the boys club, I can think of one or two who are the opposite. There's an alt-right FB group of Old School Gamers, but also an extremely progressive OSR RPG FB group as well.

So I think it's an unfair reputation the OSR has gained to dump everyone into the same bucket, but I also understand why it happened. Which is pretty disappointing. I think that's why it's critical that fans of the OSR and indie publishers of OSR material need to keep speaking out against these people.

I made my official statement as an indie publisher on my website. In a nutshell, this OSR publisher and fan supports equal rights, and speaks out against TSR3 and other toxic OSR elements.

 

[Professor Murder]

I'm not sure how the OSR got to a point where it's gained the reputation of being a bastion for bigots. I mean, I know how, because a few really loud bigots keep saying they speak for the OSR, but it never should have happened. There have been many statements of "Oh, those original TSR folks were all some flavor of bigot." If you actually look and talk to the people, it's not the case at all. In fact, I'd posit that there are more progressives from old TSR than there are people like Ernie. People like Janelle Jaquays, Pauli Kidd, James Lowder, Skip Williams, Tim Kask, Jeff Dee, and many many others who are very vocal and adamant about their support for diversity and inclusivity and were there in the early days. It seems that for every old guard who waxes poetic about the good ol days with the boys club, I can think of one or two who are the opposite. There's an alt-right FB group of Old School Gamers, but also an extremely progressive OSR RPG FB group as well.

So I think it's an unfair reputation the OSR has gained to dump everyone into the same bucket, but I also understand why it happened. Which is pretty disappointing. I think that's why it's critical that fans of the OSR and indie publishers of OSR material need to keep speaking out against these people.

I made my official statement as an indie publisher on my website. In a nutshell, this OSR publisher and fan supports equal rights, and speaks out against TSR3 and other toxic OSR elements.

You have my condolences. It is challenging to have an entire style movement be associated with bad actors who are acting as an invasive presence in your space. To be blunt, part of the challenge is that the OSR is inherently a conservative movement, in that it looks back to older styles of play and seeks to revitalize them over more recent gaming styles. As a result, it will attract other forms of conservatism. This is not an issue unique to the OSR movement. I am certain a case can be made for other varieties of scoundrels who bedevil various other gaming styles.

 

[Azzy]

I'm not sure how the OSR got to a point where it's gained the reputation of being a bastion for bigots. I mean, I know how, because a few really loud bigots keep saying they speak for the OSR, but it never should have happened. There have been many statements of "Oh, those original TSR folks were all some flavor of bigot." If you actually look and talk to the people, it's not the case at all. In fact, I'd posit that there are more progressives from old TSR than there are people like Ernie. People like Janelle Jaquays, Pauli Kidd, James Lowder, Skip Williams, Tim Kask, Jeff Dee, and many many others who are very vocal and adamant about their support for diversity and inclusivity and were there in the early days. It seems that for every old guard who waxes poetic about the good ol days with the boys club, I can think of one or two who are the opposite. There's an alt-right FB group of Old School Gamers, but also an extremely progressive OSR RPG FB group as well.

So I think it's an unfair reputation the OSR has gained to dump everyone into the same bucket, but I also understand why it happened. Which is pretty disappointing. I think that's why it's critical that fans of the OSR and indie publishers of OSR material need to keep speaking out against these people.

I made my official statement as an indie publisher on my website. In a nutshell, this OSR publisher and fan supports equal rights, and speaks out against TSR3 and other toxic OSR elements.

I, for one, am glad that you are making the attempt to lead by example. I can only hope that more people follow that lead.

 

[Retreater]

You have my condolences. It is challenging to have an entire style movement be associated with bad actors who are acting as an invasive presence in your space. To be blunt, part of the challenge is that the OSR is inherently a conservative movement, in that it looks back to older styles of play and seeks to revitalize them over more recent gaming styles. As a result, it will attract other forms of conservatism. This is not an issue unique to the OSR movement. I am certain a case can be made for other varieties of scoundrels who bedevil various other gaming styles.

I mean, are those who collect vinyl more likely to be conservative? Retro video game consoles?
I think OSR fans can represent a wide spectrum of hobbyists. I hope we do.