TSR Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes the original interview which sparked off the controversy look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements.

For reference -- TSR1 is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, TSR2 is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create Gygax Magazine and which currently publishes the Top Secret RPG, and TSR3 is the newly launched company.

---

Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:

TSR - Ernie Gygax on New TSR, WotC Beefs, Trademarks, Licensees, 5E, & More

A YouTube channel, 'Live From the Bunker', interviewed Ernie Gygax about the new TSR. I've watched and decided to try to transcribe the most relevant parts of it, but the full hour-long video is below if you want to see the whole interview and full context. Ernie Gygax is one of D&D...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine...

www.enworld.org

A TSR Announces a Star Frontiers Reboot

One of the new TSRs (yes there are now two TSRs!) has announced a reboot of Star Frontiers, the sci-fi game made by the original TSR back in the 1980s. Star Frontiers was a percentile dice roleplaying game set in a galaxy with four races (Human, Dralasite, Vrusk, and Yazirian) which were re-used...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR Is Back.... Again!

TSR is back... again! A new company, using the name and logo of the original publisher of Dungeons & Dragons has just been launched, along with a limited edition new game called Giantlands, and a theme park! But first, some history! Because this isn't the first time TSR has been resurrected...

www.enworld.org

---

TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here.

(Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter).

TSR2 -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion."

Gen Con -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia."

Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention.

GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association) -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization."

Jeff Dee -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow"

Jim Ward, an original TSR alumnus and who wrote Giantlands, TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know."

Luke Gygax -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR"

TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax​

Tim Kask, an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing.

"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la.

But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be.

That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift.

Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t....

... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs ....

... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are."

​

 

[thirdkingdom]

You have my condolences. It is challenging to have an entire style movement be associated with bad actors who are acting as an invasive presence in your space. To be blunt, part of the challenge is that the OSR is inherently a conservative movement, in that it looks back to older styles of play and seeks to revitalize them over more recent gaming styles. As a result, it will attract other forms of conservatism. This is not an issue unique to the OSR movement. I am certain a case can be made for other varieties of scoundrels who bedevil various other gaming styles.

While it is true that the OSR looks back to old styles of play, I think it is fair to say that some of the most innovative games of the past five or six years have emerged from the movement: the various 'Worlds, Mork Borg, Ultraviolet Grasslands, etc.

 

[Sacrosanct]

You have my condolences. It is challenging to have an entire style movement be associated with bad actors who are acting as an invasive presence in your space. To be blunt, part of the challenge is that the OSR is inherently a conservative movement, in that it looks back to older styles of play and seeks to revitalize them over more recent gaming styles. As a result, it will attract other forms of conservatism. This is not an issue unique to the OSR movement. I am certain a case can be made for other varieties of scoundrels who bedevil various other gaming styles.

I have no proof or data for this claim, but I strongly think there's merit to it: I believe that as WoTC took on a more diverse approach to their official D&D material (especially their changes over the past year), the folks who don't like that moved into the OSR where they could still look at a version of D&D that catered solely to them.

 

[Bolares]

I don't think we should take this thread in to the topic of OSR being conservative or not...

 

[RFB Dan]

I mean, are those who collect vinyl more likely to be conservative? Retro video game consoles?
I think OSR fans can represent a wide spectrum of hobbyists. I hope we do.

Wait a minute. Are you saying that my Atari 2600 is turning me into a reactionary? Makes sense now that I think of it, what with the square guy stabbing the duck-dragon with the arrow and all that. #MyBadJokeIsBad

 

[darjr]

The OSR Captcorajus says he’ll never have anything about them in his channel.

Also it looks like the business plan was to scoop up other peoples stuff and resell it at a premium using the logo?

From Captcorajus comments on his video.

Support Necrotic Gnome, Northwind Games, Frog God Games, among many other GREAT OSR creators. These guys aren't going to be creating anything. Their schtick is to contact existing creators, and offer the opportunity to put the trademark on their already existing product for a premium. I've seen the IMs/ emails. They got nothing, and over the last few days they've managed to turn themselves into a dumpster fire. Attacking Luke Gygax, threatening FB groups with lawsuits that have TSR in their name, and more. Nothing more will be coming from this channel on them.

 

[CleverNickName]

The OSR Captcorajus says he’ll never have anything about them in his channel.

Also it looks like the business plan was to scoop up other peoples stuff and resell it at a premium using the logo?

From Captcorajus comments on his video.

Ugh. This TSR3 dumpster fire is just one disappointment after another, isn't it?

 

[billd91]

I mean, are those who collect vinyl more likely to be conservative? Retro video game consoles?
I think OSR fans can represent a wide spectrum of hobbyists. I hope we do.

It potentially can represent a wide spectrum, but I think Professor Murder has a point. There are relatively conservative elements of culture that attract more conservative elements, in part, through backlash against newer entries. Think of the backlashes against disco and rap music from the conservative ends of and classic rock/southern rock/country music quarters. I think we're definitely seeing some parallel of that with the OSR community.

 

[Umbran]

I think OSR fans can represent a wide spectrum of hobbyists. I hope we do.

Yes, but creation is far harder than destruction. It takes more voices to create an open and welcoming environment than it takes to turn an environment hostile.

As a part of this - if open-minded folks quietly allow ugliness to be present in the space, it looks like consent and agreement from the outside. Good-minded people have to be vocal about it - like Sacrosanct here - if you want the OSR to not look dominated by crud.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Forgive me if I am slightly more concerned about the safety of LGBT and BIPOC players in the hobby than I am about the redemption of the people enabling the toxicity that these marginalized groups regularly face. Ernie Gygax may be an otherwise perfect human being who got roped in by the wrong crowd, or he might be just as foul as LaNasa, Dineheart, and the other rogues of TSR 3. I don't know, and right now I don't really care. I'm more concerned about chuds, like our new friend DM Reality, who are being emboldened by TSR 3's #KeepGamingFantasy nonsense.

I'm hopeful that the pushback that TSR 3 is getting will lead to more widespread acceptance of marginalized identities in tabletop roleplaying, leading to a more diverse hobby, both artistically and socially. But I'm worried at the possibility that TSR 3 may just be the start of a new wave of regressive abuse from the reactionary fringe being boosted into the mainstream discourse and making the hobby less safe for marginalized people.

Near, a game developer famous in the emulation scene for creating bsnes and higan, took their own life today after a lifetime of abuse and harassment reached its zenith. Near was autistic and nonbinary, and that was reason enough for them to be relentlessly cyberbullied. And now they're dead. You want to talk about a mob that destroys? Look no further than KiwiFarms.

You said your say. No one should bleed, no one should suffer, and until we can get past this us and them attitude we will remain unprogressed humans, sides drawn, fingers pointing, teeth gnashing. The worst elements from both of these sides will prevail as has always been the case in human history. I do not hear in these threads the calls for the ruination of Gays; but I have heard for the call for the ruination of Ernie Gygax. For those who ask not to be judged the judgments flow quickly from. The words of Gandalf in response to Frodo wishing Bilbo had killed Gollum come to mind. I have no answer to the vitriol and fear emanating from both sides, but I know that the final ending is not wrapped in destruction, so it must be the opposite.

With respect for your place in RPG history, Mr. Kuntz, no, it has not. There has been forward motion, yes. But the fact that Mr. Gygax felt it okay to bring up gender politics as a sales point rather proves that the work is not done. The fact that we have to have an explicit inclusivity policy on this site to defend our posters from racism, sexism, and other prejudices proves it.

The history of civil rights in the US is not a history of people with a legitimate grievance quietly sitting down and calmly explaining their issues, and having them addressed by the powers that be. It is a history of people having to put up with a lot of crud, and finally getting fed up, not tolerating abuse any more, and making a heck of a lot of noise. Historically, there has been no motion on civil rights issues otherwise - do look at the history of women's suffrage and the Civil Rights era if you don't believe me.

So, we are very sorry if "the mob" is loud, or disturbs you. But the assertion that they only destroy is proven false by history. Instead, the inertia and intransigence of the status quo rather seems to require such action. Tut-tutting at the mob reads like blaming the victims of prejudice and their allies, and telling them that your peace and quiet is more important than their equality.

I appreciate your input, Umbrian. But you are missing the spirit of my point which was to the point and not an interpretable aside. It was related ("mob") to calls for Ernie's disfranchisement. I do not agree with either side in the matter of retribution, stereotyping and hate, That is not what I seek as an advocate of freedom of choice. I seek progress, and that will be through, somewhat, reconcilliation, not destruction. Those who refuse reconcilliation should be shunned and ostracized IMO. Who draws the line of when where and under what circumstances one crosses the Rubicon and becomes unsalvageable? Each person must walk in their own shadow and bear the responsibility of their actions. Everyone. Ernie is a good person worth salvaging on this point. Why? It's not because I agree or am complicit or am hand-waving his comments, quite the contrary. I know him, he is better than this. I will find out and get to the bottom of his current abberrant behaviour today in a phone call. I am very concerned for him and the damage he is causing to others. If he is unsalvageable I will find out. I have certain demands I am placing, all rather normal and reasonable considering the situation. So rather than talk I'd rather solve, so rather than destroy I'd like to change and mediate. This is not an either/or or us and them issue when you speak of one or many lives, no matter the situations regarding them.

 

[Estlor]

I haven't read the whole thread so apolgies if this has come up already, but part of me wonders if this isn't in some small way a deliberate attempt by Ernie to carpet bomb the Gygax name/TSR legacy out of spite in an effort to destroy any value it would bring to Gail.