TSR Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes the original interview which sparked off the controversy look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements.

For reference -- TSR1 is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, TSR2 is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create Gygax Magazine and which currently publishes the Top Secret RPG, and TSR3 is the newly launched company.

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Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:

TSR - Ernie Gygax on New TSR, WotC Beefs, Trademarks, Licensees, 5E, & More

A YouTube channel, 'Live From the Bunker', interviewed Ernie Gygax about the new TSR. I've watched and decided to try to transcribe the most relevant parts of it, but the full hour-long video is below if you want to see the whole interview and full context. Ernie Gygax is one of D&D...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine...

www.enworld.org

A TSR Announces a Star Frontiers Reboot

One of the new TSRs (yes there are now two TSRs!) has announced a reboot of Star Frontiers, the sci-fi game made by the original TSR back in the 1980s. Star Frontiers was a percentile dice roleplaying game set in a galaxy with four races (Human, Dralasite, Vrusk, and Yazirian) which were re-used...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR Is Back.... Again!

TSR is back... again! A new company, using the name and logo of the original publisher of Dungeons & Dragons has just been launched, along with a limited edition new game called Giantlands, and a theme park! But first, some history! Because this isn't the first time TSR has been resurrected...

www.enworld.org

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TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here.

(Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter).

TSR2 -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion."

Gen Con -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia."

Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention.

GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association) -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization."

Jeff Dee -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow"

Jim Ward, an original TSR alumnus and who wrote Giantlands, TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know."

Luke Gygax -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR"

TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax​

Tim Kask, an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing.

"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la.

But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be.

That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift.

Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t....

... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs ....

... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are."

​

 

[Grendel_Khan]

I haven't read the whole thread so apolgies if this has come up already, but part of me wonders if this isn't in some small way a deliberate attempt by Ernie to carpet bomb the Gygax name/TSR legacy out of spite in an effort to destroy any value it would bring to Gail.

As the last four years or so have reinforced, when people reveal themselves as defensive, reactionary, retrograde dum-dums, I'm not sure it makes sense to ascribe four-dimensional chess tactics to their ineffective floundering.

The worst elements from both of these sides will prevail as has always been the case in human history.

I'm guessing you aren't as chronically (or disastrously) online as some of us, but just want to point out that this is the ultimate distillation of the both-sides mentality that progressives (like me) have identified as the most immediate threat to real progress in the fight for equality. It muddies the discussion by presenting the entire thing as a big hopeless mud fight, while reasonable people simply shut up and quietly love and accept things. Meanwhile, in reality, out in the messy world you're decrying, rights continue to be denied or trampled, bad actors actually don't get cancelled in the way you're imagining (they get GoFundMes, sponsorships, and hits on Fox News), and resistance to progress gets an unwitting ally in people who simply want everyone to somehow, magically work together. When you not only use "both sides" language, but then articulate the both-sides position, all you're doing is telling people to stop fighting for their rights, which inherently means nothing will change, and existing abuses will continue.

I think your intentions are truly good. But this smacks of being poorly informed. The fights are real, and the people pushing for change are at real risk, and whether you think it's all unsavory is frankly irrelevant.

 

[Weiley31]

Nerd Immersion had a few choice words. He doesn’t want to give them any more attention and regrets making a video about them. In fact he sounds a “put out”.
Go to 35:57. Sorry for a lack of time stamp link.

Not like he knew they were going to start a huge dumpster fire.

 

[Dessert Nomad]

The OSR Captcorajus says he’ll never have anything about them in his channel.

Also it looks like the business plan was to scoop up other peoples stuff and resell it at a premium using the logo?

I think that would actually work as a business plan. It's wouldn't result in a billion-dollar business like 5e, but could definitely have helped some games move some more products while TSR(3) takes their cut for name recognition. That's part of what is so bizarre to me about the trash fire - TSR(3) could easily have become a nice solid source of money and (positive) recognition in the gaming world if they didn't layer bad decision on top of bad decision.

You said your say. No one should bleed, no one should suffer, and until we can get past this us and them attitude we will remain unprogressed humans, sides drawn, fingers pointing, teeth gnashing. The worst elements from both of these sides will prevail as has always been the case in human history. I do not hear in these threads the calls for the ruination of Gays; but I have heard for the call for the ruination of Ernie Gygax. For those who ask not to be judged the judgments flow quickly from. The words of Gandalf in response to Frodo wishing Bilbo had killed Gollum come to mind. I have no answer to the vitriol and fear emanating from both sides, but I know that the final ending is not wrapped in destruction, so it must be the opposite.

Trying to draw an equivalence between "I want these people denied human rights and/or dead" and "I hope the guy who wants me denied human rights and/or dead goes out of business" just doesn't stand up to even superficial examination. Judging that someone should be treated as not fully human for how they were born (or not hiding how they were born) is vastly different than judging that a bigot is not someone you want to spend money on, and trying to pretend that they are doesn't paint a good picture of the person 'both sides'ing.

 

[Gradine]

@Rob Kuntz

"Why can't we all just get along?" they ask, as trans folx are attacked on the internet and in the streets and murdered in states where that's still legal, while their access to sports and bathrooms and necessary health care are under attack.

"No one is calling for your ruination." You want to bet? You want to see the death threats I've been sent since this all started?

You want to talk both sides? You know where the phrase "get woke go broke" started? But no, no, it's only us Twitter woke mobs and our cancel culture who are calling for boycotts and ruining lives.

"Gays have achieved equality." Have they? Really? More to point, why do you keep bringing up "the Gays" when all this started and has mostly gotten worse through attacks on trans and gender-noncomforming folx?

Our people are dying, and you want me to worry about Ernie's business? All due respect, but get some f***ing perspective. "But poor Ernie's business might fail!" GOOD. I'm GLAD. He deserves it. Maybe next time he crawls out of his hole he'll do it with dog whistling the dogpile out on me and my own.

I'm not going to speculate where you get your news, but transphobia is having a bit of a moment, especially in the US and the UK. Things are getting measurably worse for us. So you'll have to forgive me that I don't have a shred of sympathy for someone who's staked their business in throwing people like me under the bus. Whatever they get, it's less than they deserve.

 

[Retreater]

Any movement predicated on the tenant that older ways are superior to newer ones is conservative. That is not fundamentally wrong in and of itself. But like attracts like. A space that is sympathetic to "older rulesets are better than newer ones" risks being sympathetic to "classic gamer culture is superior to modern gamer culture."

I enjoy the study of history, both of our world and of my various hobbies. I appreciate having the old games available, and I can enjoy the old style of games. I don't think all members of the OSR see it as superior to modern gaming, and I think many of us enjoy a variety of games.
While appreciating history in whatever its forms, I can realize there were outdated concepts that we can hope the modern world has moved past. Some of these have crept into current games, and I think in those cases we need to exercise caution and be welcoming to others.
To me, the OSR isn't about playing the old games as they were, but taking what worked from them and making them better experiences for modern players.
If you go to a Ren Faire you don't want renaissance medicine. There are parts that are good and fun, but you don't want an authentic experience across the board.

 

[Bolares]

@Rob Kuntz

"Why can't we all just get along?" they ask, as trans folx are attacked on the internet and in the streets and murdered in states where that's still legal, while their access to sports and bathrooms and necessary health care are under attack.

"No one is calling for your ruination." You want to bet? You want to see the death threats I've been sent since this all started?

You want to talk both sides? You know where the phrase "get woke go broke" started? But no, no, it's only us Twitter woke mobs and our cancel culture who are calling for boycotts and ruining lives.

Your ignorance is astonishing. "Gays have achieved equality." Have they? Really? More to point, why do you keep bringing up "the Gays" when all this started and has mostly gotten worse through attacks on trans and gender-noncomforming folx?

Our people are dying, and you want me to worry about Ernie's business? All due respect, but get some f***ing perspective. "But poor Ernie's business might fail!" GOOD. I'm GLAD. He deserves it. Maybe next time he crawls out of his hole he'll do it with dog whistling the dogpile out on me and my own.

I'm not going to speculate where you get your news, but transphobia is having a bit of a moment, especially in the US and the UK. Things are getting measurably worse for us. So you'll have to forgive me that I don't have a shred of sympathy for someone who's staked their business in throwing people like me under the bus. Whatever they get, it's less than they deserve.

It’s really tiring to see time and time again the actions of bigots being reasoned and the reaction of marginalized groups as a transgression.

 

[thirdkingdom]

This.
I was afraid to comment something among those lines and be called a racist/homophobic/whatever.

Speaking as a middle-aged, cis-het white dude, I think it is important to be vocal about one's support of marginalized communities because a) it lets people in those communities know they have outside support and b) it lets those threatening those communities know they are very much in the minority. Silence simply enforces the status quo.

 

[Ulfgeir]

If you go to a Ren Faire you don't want renaissance medicine. There are parts that are good and fun, but you don't want an authentic experience across the board.

Off topic.. When I was a member of a mediaeval club (breakout-group from the SCA), we used to say that a lot of the members in the club would not have be able to survive if they were put in a real mediaeval environment as many had severe food allergies or depended on lots and lots of modern medicine.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Speaking as a middle-aged, cis-het white dude, I think it is important to be vocal about one's support of marginalized communities because a) it lets people in those communities know they have outside support and b) it lets those threatening those communities know they are very much in the minority. Silence simply enforces the status quo.

Exactly. It's not enough to simply not be a bigot. Nothing gets changed that way, because the definition of "minority" means not in the majority (and thus not having the political power to change things). We have to be actively anti-bigot. Not only to let our impacted friends know they have an ally, but to enact real change.

 

[Estlor]

I can't imagine that's the case. It would also destroy any value it has for him - and I strongly suspect that would outweigh any spite directed at Gail.

I wouldn't presume someone consumed with pettiness and vindictiveness would stop to think about what you're going to do after your finished burning everything to the ground.

But I do agree that most likely we're dealing with another unfortunate case of someone living inside an echo chamber long enough that they forget how small that room really is...