TSR Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR

The new TSR (which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its TSR Games, Giantlands, and Dungeon Hobby Museum social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes the original interview which sparked off the controversy look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements.

For reference -- TSR1 is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, TSR2 is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create Gygax Magazine and which currently publishes the Top Secret RPG, and TSR3 is the newly launched company.

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Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:

TSR - Ernie Gygax on New TSR, WotC Beefs, Trademarks, Licensees, 5E, & More

A YouTube channel, 'Live From the Bunker', interviewed Ernie Gygax about the new TSR. I've watched and decided to try to transcribe the most relevant parts of it, but the full hour-long video is below if you want to see the whole interview and full context. Ernie Gygax is one of D&D...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR (2) Confirms TSR (3)'s Acquisition of Trademark (Updated!)

Jayson Elliot registered the TSR trademark back in 2011 and used it to launch Gygax Magazine along with Ernie and Luke Gygax. The two Gygax's left the company a few years later after Gary Gygax's (co-founder of TSR (1) back in the 1970s) widow, Gail Gygax, forced the closure of Gygax Magazine...

www.enworld.org

A TSR Announces a Star Frontiers Reboot

One of the new TSRs (yes there are now two TSRs!) has announced a reboot of Star Frontiers, the sci-fi game made by the original TSR back in the 1980s. Star Frontiers was a percentile dice roleplaying game set in a galaxy with four races (Human, Dralasite, Vrusk, and Yazirian) which were re-used...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR Is Back.... Again!

TSR is back... again! A new company, using the name and logo of the original publisher of Dungeons & Dragons has just been launched, along with a limited edition new game called Giantlands, and a theme park! But first, some history! Because this isn't the first time TSR has been resurrected...

www.enworld.org

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TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here.

(Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter).

TSR2 -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion."

Gen Con -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia."

Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention.

GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association) -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization."

Jeff Dee -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow"

Jim Ward, an original TSR alumnus and who wrote Giantlands, TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know."

Luke Gygax -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR"

TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax​

Tim Kask, an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing.

"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la.

But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be.

That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift.

Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t....

... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs ....

... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are."

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[Parmandur]

I have no proof or data for this claim, but I strongly think there's merit to it: I believe that as WoTC took on a more diverse approach to their official D&D material (especially their changes over the past year), the folks who don't like that moved into the OSR where they could still look at a version of D&D that catered solely to them.

There is also a bit of an identity crisis to tge indie OSR scene since 2014: one could argue that 5E is an OSR game, and major OSR companies such as Goodman, Troll Lord, and Frog God have embraced making 5E material. There is definitely still a scene, but it's hard to set up in opposition to "mainstream D&D" to create market space based on gameplay now.

 

[Parmandur]

I mean, are those who collect vinyl more likely to be conservative? Retro video game consoles?
I think OSR fans can represent a wide spectrum of hobbyists. I hope we do.

Theres's also not an exact Venn diagram overlap between "conservative " and "bigoted jerk," despite the best efforts of bigoted jerks to make it seem so.

 

[RFB Dan]

You said your say. No one should bleed, no one should suffer, and until we can get past this us and them attitude we will remain unprogressed humans, sides drawn, fingers pointing, teeth gnashing. The worst elements from both of these sides will prevail as has always been the case in human history. I do not hear in these threads the calls for the ruination of Gays; but I have heard for the call for the ruination of Ernie Gygax. For those who ask not to be judged the judgments flow quickly from. The words of Gandalf in response to Frodo wishing Bilbo had killed Gollum come to mind. I have no answer to the vitriol and fear emanating from both sides, but I know that the final ending is not wrapped in destruction, so it must be the opposite.

I appreciate your input, Umbrian. But you are missing the spirit of my point which was to the point and not an interpretable aside. It was related ("mob") to calls for Ernie's disfranchisement. I do not agree with either side in the matter of retribution, stereotyping and hate, That is not what I seek as an advocate of freedom of choice. I seek progress, and that will be through, somewhat, reconcilliation, not destruction. Those who refuse reconcilliation should be shunned and ostracized IMO. Who draws the line of when where and under what circumstances one crosses the Rubicon and becomes unsalvageable? Each person must walk in their own shadow and bear the responsibility of their actions. Everyone. Ernie is a good person worth salvaging on this point. Why? It's not because I agree or am complicit or am hand-waving his comments, quite the contrary. I know him, he is better than this. I will find out and get to the bottom of his current abberrant behaviour today in a phone call. I am very concerned for him and the damage he is causing to others. If he is unsalvageable I will find out. I have certain demands I am placing, all rather normal and reasonable considering the situation. So rather than talk I'd rather solve, so rather than destroy I'd like to change and mediate. This is not an either/or or us and them issue when you speak of one or many lives, no matter the situations regarding them.

I truly understand your perspective here, and I think it would be important that we all understand that this is beyond a simple issue of what a group of people from a company says (3SR), this is an old, personal friend from years back for you. I do think you probably have the most insight to Ernie than everyone else here because of this. I have friends that have done some unfortunate things in their past, with a few even imprisoned because of it. I don't know if I could be as patient and insightful as you have been if they were attacking my old friends. I feel bad for you that you (and several others from that era) have been stuck in the middle, forced to choose between stabbing an old friend or giving the impression you endorse what they said or did. This can't be easy.

 

[Remathilis]

I mean, are those who collect vinyl more likely to be conservative? Retro video game consoles?
I think OSR fans can represent a wide spectrum of hobbyists. I hope we do.

It's less that the OSR community is regressive in nature and more that regressive players find misguided common cause in the OSR as an anti-modernity movement. I can't speak to vinyl, but there is a strand of retro-gamer who latched onto gamergate-like talking points on modern gaming pandering and that classic "rescue the princess" gaming is true gaming. Sadly, there those people who wish to fight against more inclusive voices often feel that retro or nostalgic movements are a good place to hide their bigotry, which infects the whole movement but association.

 

[Weiley31]

All I know is, after reading about all this on the Twitter, here, and elsewhere, they aren't getting my money. TSR/Giantlands knows EXACTLY where they can go.

 

[Nefermandias]

Firstly, I don’t believe it’s correct for anyone to insult any other group of people. But, I don’t see why everyone has to continually declare that Black Lives Matter or Trans Lives Matter all the time to reassure people that they aren’t bigots. Comparatively few people proclaim on a daily basis that we should not destroy the planet with waste and pollution but they aren’t “cancelled”. Games should be designed for the masses rather than the minorities. Care should be taken that they are inclusive but the focus seems to be very off nowadays. Games shouldn’t be about politics and agendas.

This.
I was afraid to comment something along those lines and be called a racist/homophobic/whatever.

 

[Professor Murder]

I mean, are those who collect vinyl more likely to be conservative? Retro video game consoles?
I think OSR fans can represent a wide spectrum of hobbyists. I hope we do.

Any movement predicated on the tenant that older ways are superior to newer ones is conservative. That is not fundamentally wrong in and of itself. But like attracts like. A space that is sympathetic to "older rulesets are better than newer ones" risks being sympathetic to "classic gamer culture is superior to modern gamer culture."

 

[darjr]

Nerd Immersion had a few choice words. He doesn’t want to give them any more attention and regrets making a video about them. In fact he sounds a “put out”.
Go to 35:57. Sorry for a lack of time stamp link.

 

[billd91]

I haven't read the whole thread so apolgies if this has come up already, but part of me wonders if this isn't in some small way a deliberate attempt by Ernie to carpet bomb the Gygax name/TSR legacy out of spite in an effort to destroy any value it would bring to Gail.

I can't imagine that's the case. It would also destroy any value it has for him - and I strongly suspect that would outweigh any spite directed at Gail.

 

[Thomas Shey]

You have my condolences. It is challenging to have an entire style movement be associated with bad actors who are acting as an invasive presence in your space. To be blunt, part of the challenge is that the OSR is inherently a conservative movement, in that it looks back to older styles of play and seeks to revitalize them over more recent gaming styles. As a result, it will attract other forms of conservatism. This is not an issue unique to the OSR movement. I am certain a case can be made for other varieties of scoundrels who bedevil various other gaming styles.

This is, of course, a big part of the problem; there's nothing intrinsic about valuing some older gaming approaches that you think have been lost over the years, but its inevitable that like any retro movement, its also going to attract some of those who have retro attitudes in other ways, and its far too easy for them to seem to be the poster boys for it (not the least because they're probably going to be loud proponents and thus pretty visible).

You see some similar problems for related reasons among fans of post-apocalypse gaming (to the point where I finally bailed out of the FB group I was on for same because it was obvious that there were some aggressive posters of a type that either the moderators didn't care about or passively supported).