D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Minigiant]

I patiently wait to see what WOTC does with halflings in their 2 new settings.

 

[Hussar]

This is a false dichotomy based on not looking at what is actually being said.

Hey, I'm not the one you have to convince. I'm not the one who's saying that they have been "well-used in several settings". Heck, I largely AGREE with you. But, apparently, you are 100% wrong according to @Faolyn. So, like I said, you fine folks figure it out and let me know. Because until you guys figure it out, how am I supposed to carry on a conversation where the two people I'm talking to are claiming exact opposite things as truth?

the point that if you break things down by subrace and apply your crude filter we kick out dwarves.

Hey, I've NEVER been the one who has been breaking things down by subrace. That's not me. My point was that if we're pegging halflings at 5 (ish) percent, then dwarves roll in at 6.6% (in the 2019 breakdown) and elves at 11.0% whereas halflings come in at 4.7%. But, the point being, I have no idea why I keep getting pointed at for breaking things down by subrace. I don't think I ever did that.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah, that's going to absolutely crush gnomes and halflings

If goblins and kobolds make the 6e PHB, rest in pepperonis halflings and gnomes.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Hey, I'm not the one you have to convince. I'm not the one who's saying that they have been "well-used in several settings". Heck, I largely AGREE with you. But, apparently, you are 100% wrong according to @Faolyn. So, like I said, you fine folks figure it out and let me know. Because until you guys figure it out, how am I supposed to carry on a conversation where the two people I'm talking to are claiming exact opposite things as truth?

The setting the issue is about is Forgotten Realms. Has anyone defended Forgotten Realms here?

 

[Minigiant]

The setting the issue is about is Forgotten Realms. Has anyone defended Forgotten Realms here?

Well the same issue kinda exists in Greyhawk, Mystara, and Generic Setting #4.

Halfling kinda only get developed if the designers are purposely trying to break traditions.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well the same issue kinda exists in Greyhawk, Mystara,

Do these even have 5e setting books?

and Generic Setting #4.

Did you create Generic Setting #4? If you did, that's your own fault. Nothing in halflings inherently makes them bad for homebrewed settings. Several people here have told how they're used in their own worlds. That some people don't know what to do with them is a personal problem, not a problem with halflings.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm with you for most of it, but slings aren't effective enough. Range of 30 ft if you don't want disadvantage is too close, 1d4+1 is an average of 3 damage (my math previously said 4, I think I was rounding up) meaning it would take potentially 7 strikes to take down a gnoll, at close range when they only need one strike.

Why on earth do you think the halflings are fighting 1 on 1? We've got an entire village of community minded farmers against a single raiding party. Especially at range quantity has a quality all of its own.

Also if we go by default monster manual statblocks and the way the +1 bonuses from PC races almost always become the favoured stat from the MM statblock it will be 1d4+2 - or 4.5 damage on average - for five stones on average. Working against the gnolls AC 15 the stones have a 1 in 2 chance of hitting - or 1 in 4 with disadvantage (remember that gnolls like this don't use longbows as they are using shields). Which means that each halfling has enough ammo in a normal sling pouch to take down a gnoll if they can kite far enough - and hand off who's double moving and who's retreating and shooting long enough to pick off the lead gnolls.

It's two groups of skirmishers here with one with local knowledge and subtly prepared ground and that's trying to fall back to fortified positions, bleeding the other as they come and the other trying to melee them. Five gnolls running into 20 kiting halflings lose an average of a gnoll a round and only close 35ft per round - while also losing more distance from the gnoll who fell (say another 10ft due to being spread out). So they lose the first four to close 100ft - and the fifth gets to dash into melee before dying. But it's worse than that. If the gnolls get within 30ft either the halflings get a turn at double effectiveness or they double move and only let the gnolls close 10ft for the turn. Either way, there being no charge action, the gnoll is going to have to dash to make it into melee and that turn is probably going to be brutal for them before they get to attack.

At 4:1 odds against the gnoll raiding party either the gnolls go for an archery duel on prepared ground or there's a good chance that the halflings wipe them out before any of them make it into melee. And remember this is casually dressed halflings who weren't expecting trouble using MM-equivalent statblocks.

There's a reason that social animals tend to dominate. And homo sapiens pushed out homo neanderthalensis despite the neanderthals being bigger, stronger, and having bigger brains. Mass numbers of organised farmers in the real world is an extremely powerful combination.

 

[Cadence]

Their bonus is literally just a +1.
That's worse than base proficiency.

Effectively having the entire race shifted up by 2 on the related ability for that skill wouldn't make them all Ninjas, but feels like it would increase the number who could excel at that by a lot! (At least based on all the threads where folks refuse to do some race/class combinations for lack of an ASI).

 

[Minigiant]

Do these even have 5e setting books?

They have adventure books.

Did you create Generic Setting #4? If you did, that's your own fault. Nothing in halflings inherently makes them bad for homebrewed settings. Several people here have told how they're used in their own worlds. That some people don't know what to do with them is a personal problem, not a problem with halflings.

We shouldn't run the game on the expectations of everyone being an expert and veteran.

 

[Neonchameleon]

@Neonchameleon - I have to admit, I tend to agree with what you are saying. If they are going to keep halflings in the game, then actually use them. Unfortunately, I don't think they will. They'll keep halflings in the core, because, well, as this thread has shown, any modifications to halflings is treading some very, very dangerous territory. There's been a lot of pretty negative reactions to some of the proposed changes and I think that the traditionalists in the hobby will lose their collective minds if we stray too far afield.

As normal you seem to be distorting what's being said.

It's not "any modifications to halflings" that's being objected to. It's simply that modifications to halflings being suggested by people who don't get why people like halflings are about as pleasing to people that like them as modifications to football by people who hate football normally are to people who like football.

If you do not understand something and the appeal of that something and try to change it to fit your preferences it is incredibly likely that what you'll end up changing is why people liked it in the first place, leaving you with something that pleases no one.

It will be interesting to see what happens after the new dragon book comes out. I'll bet, as a thought, they'll spend a fair bit of time on dragonborn but also on kobolds. As it stands right now, the only real competition for halflings is gnomes - they're the only 2 small races in the PHB. And, "the small race" is a definite niche. But, if kobolds get a bunch of loving in the new Dragon book and if they become free to play on D&D Beyond, my prediction is that by this time next year, halflings will be pretty much gone. A short race with ties to dragons? Yeah, that's going to absolutely crush gnomes and halflings.

Will be interesting to see.

And once more you demonstrate that you, personally, @Hussar have very little understanding why people love halflings and what halflings add to the game. I've a feeling kobolds will be the final nail in the coffin for gnomes if they aren't locked behind a paywall. Rock gnomes with their tinkering specialty in particular are going to suffer against D&D's archetypal trapmakers. (Forest gnomes tend to come second to lightfoot halflings anyway).

But part of the point of halflings is that they aren't cool. You're saying that people will go for the cooler race that's less visibly out of their depth. And you won't get the relatively common pick from wide-eyed newbie who picks a race that's like a small human, curious and doesn't know what it's doing and picks a race that visibly exemplifies the way they are feeling right now and isn't something too exotic. A cooler, more exotic version of halflings is a version of halflings with less of the emotional appeal and resonance of halflings.