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D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

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Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Hmm. Can D&D 6e or some future completely-digital edition of D&D have an Ignore Button for different races and other parts of D&D? Just a thought . . . :unsure:
One that let the DM custom put a PHB together based on the races and classes in the campaign world would be cool.

A few minutes ago my 11yo just carried his big stack of 5e books and notes down the steps and I jokingly asked what he's going to do when a 6e comes out. He was REALLY not amused. So how about a custom PHB maker for 5e?
 
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One that let the DM custom put a PHB together based on the races and classes in the campaign world would be cool.

A few minutes ago my 11yo just carried his big stack of 5e characters down the steps and I jokingly asked what he's going to do when a 6e comes out. He was REALLY not amused. So how about a custom PHB maker for 5e?
Really the hardback model is redundant in this day and age.

There are some things where having a book form makes sense, such as setting material, but for player's rules. There much better in some kind of linked format.

Eg, see this homebrew Star Wars hack for 5e.
 

They correct the abilities score bonus on character creation, but then they forget to place a warning that the presence of some races may offend some players!
“We prefer warn you, This game include reference to alcool, violence and halfling!”
 



Oofta

Legend
Yeah, that was the point of this thread, but a lot of people that couldn't see the forest for the trees.

I never expected this thread to reach this length. I can say without a doubt that this is the longest thread that I originally started on this site's forums. It's probably the longest thread that I've participated in. I wish that it had been more constructive, but it quickly devolved to circular arguments and endless "you're the one in the wrong!" accusations.

I dislike halflings. I find their lore lacking, and think that they have less ground to stand on than much of the other races in 5e. I don't want to tell anyone that their fun is wrong or gaslight anyone into thinking that their experiences were legitimate. The main point of the OP was saying that Halflings don't have a story. They're just short-people with a few random traits (Brave, Lucky) stapled onto them because the game-designers couldn't think of anything better to give them. They would be completely unnecessary as a player race if Humans were just allowed to be Medium or Small at character creation, or if there was a general "short human-looking person" race that combined Halflings and Gnomes. They're a bit redundant, and they have less stories as a race than most other races do.

That was the point, but very few people got it. Many people jumped to say "just don't play them!", or "why do you want to take away our fun!", which was not at all the point of the OP. If I wanted to removed halflings from D&D, I would have said that. IMO, putting them under a sub-type of humans isn't removing them, it's consolidating them to just simplify the game and stop people from feeling the need to cram them into their worlds/games with a bad/lacking excuse for their existing (and people can stop telling me that I don't have to include them, I knew that from before I made the OP. That doesn't stop the fact that people do feel forced to include them, which is the problem. Merging them with humans or gnomes would largely nullify that, IMO, as would making them not be one of the core races of the game (which also could be solved by not having any "core races" in 6e)). IMO, merging halflings with humans or gnomes is no more "invalidating of the halfling experience" than it would be "invalidating the grippli, grung, and bullywugs" if you were to just merge the three types of frog-humanoids into one race, or to make Lizardfolk and Saurials the same race to avoid redundancy (or even a semblance of redundancy).

Huh. I just realized that this is kind of similar to the phrase "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression". Halflings have gotten a privileged/special treatment as a D&D race because they were in Tolkien, so people that liked that treatment feel that they're being attacked when it's suggested that Halflings get treated in the same manner that most other D&D races are. (I'm definitely not comparing the fact that halflings get the special treatment to the systemic oppression of real world people, I'm just showing that the phrase applies in much the same way.)

Just. . . ugh. I would like to fix halflings, but people keep getting mad that I think they need fixing in the first place.
It's not like there's a lot of lore for most of the races.

But how do you expect people to respond? All races are two dimensional cardboard cutouts, it takes DMs and players to bring them to life.

You don't like halflings, you don't grasp how they are as different from gnomes as elves are from dragonborn.

That's fine. Just don't expect everyone to suddenly just throw their hands and say "Gee you're right!" just because you said you don't like them.

I, and others, have explained why we like them. You can't please everyone. 🤷‍♂️

 

Faolyn

(she/her)
IMO, putting them under a sub-type of humans isn't removing them, it's consolidating them to just simplify the game and stop people from feeling the need to cram them into their worlds/games with a bad/lacking excuse for their existing (and people can stop telling me that I don't have to include them, I knew that from before I made the OP. That doesn't stop the fact that people do feel forced to include them, which is the problem. Merging them with humans or gnomes would largely nullify that, IMO, as would making them not be one of the core races of the game (which also could be solved by not having any "core races" in 6e)). IMO, merging halflings with humans or gnomes is no more "invalidating of the halfling experience" than it would be "invalidating the grippli, grung, and bullywugs" if you were to just merge the three types of frog-humanoids into one race, or to make Lizardfolk and Saurials the same race to avoid redundancy (or even a semblance of redundancy).
Except that merging halflings with another race is 100% removing halflings from the game and is 100% invalidating them. It's making them into a subrace of another group--and in the case of merging them with humans, you'd end up insulting a lot of actual people by classifying people with dwarfism as just a human subrace.

When they made grung playable in 5e, you know what I saw over on reddit? Complaints that they hadn't also made bullywugs and grippli playable. Lizardfolk and dragonfolk are playable, but people still want saurials. D&D is all about the redundancy. It's why for every spelling of a fantasy creature's word, there's a different monster for it. You may think halflings are redundant, but so are at least a third of the other creatures in the books.
 

Ehhhh, most of my PCs since the early 1990s were on computers, and ALL of them since 2003 or so have been on some kind of mobile device.

…and I still prefer physical game books.
Some people always will.

However for a long time the online version of games have been pdfs. And PDFs are a terrible way to organise game material.

It's possible to do a lot better.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
It's not like there's a lot of lore for most of the races.
But most of them don't need hooks to justify their existence. Tortles don't need any lore justification other than "turtle person". The same applies to most animal-folk (Tabaxi, Leonin, Aarakocra, Owlin, Rabbitfolk, Lizardfolk, Grung, Locathah, Dragonborn, and so on and so on). Warforged have an obvious hook, as do Kalashtar, my world's Felshen, Vezyi, and Golmeng, as do Reborn, Dhampir, and similar races that fill mechanical niches that double as thematic niches (as a construct race, a psionic race, undead-touched race, and a half-vampire race). Plane-touched (Genasi, Tieflings, Hexblood, Aasimar, etc) have an obvious hook, as do almost every other race in the game. Most of them don't need a ton of lore to exist, because the base idea is often enough (or even more than enough) to justify their inclusion in D&D 5e.

Races that are Animal-Folk get to piggyback off of the "lore"/stereotypes about the animals they are based off of. Planetouched get to piggyback off of the lore of the plane/planar-creatures that caused them to exist.

Not all of the races have a ton of lore, but that's mostly because they don't need them. There are races that do need them, especially the Core 4 races in the game. If they're going to be a core race in the game, they need a justification other than "Tolkien!". If they're going to be a race in the game, they need a justification other than "short person!", because "short person" and "tall person" aren't thematic niches, they're minor character traits. IMHO, creating an entire race based around "humans, but short!" is like creating an entire race that is "humans, but everyone is one gender!" or "humans. but everyone has purple skin!". That's not a good reason to include a player race. Short characters should absolutely be a character type that's supported in the base game, but I'm absolutely not convinced that creating a whole race around that is a good way to fulfill that character option.
But how do you expect people to respond? All races are two dimensional cardboard cutouts, it takes DMs and players to bring them to life.
I don't know. I'm not sure. But I surely didn't expect "you're oppressing my playstyle!" to be amongst the most common responses.

Races are supposed to promote character ideas and stories. They're supposed to help the DM and Players bring them to life, not hinder it. In my experience and from what I've seen, halflings hinder it more than help it. They're just kinda there, not doing anything, and not giving the world anything except filling up space.

If I look at Tortles, Aasimar, Lizardfolk, Goliaths, Dwarves, and almost any other race, I know what their purpose is and what stories they can help tell. If I look at halflings, I draw a blank and for some reason spend more time trying to justify their existence or find a place for them than all of the other races combined, and all to no avail.

If I say "I don't understand the base halflings, and don't think that they support creative play", I expect people to say "here's how you can use them in a unique way", not "you're wrong, you're doing it wrong, and you're ruining D&D" (to be a bit hyperbolic).
You don't like halflings, you don't grasp how they are as different from gnomes as elves are from dragonborn.
Because they aren't. Elves and Dragonborn are completely different in so many ways (physically, culturally, mechanically, etc) that Halflings just aren't in respect to Humans and Gnomes. The main visual difference between Gnomes and Halflings is that Gnomes have pointy ears, and the rest of them is pretty much the same (big-headed small human-looking people), and Halflings and Gnomes are similar culturally in a way that Elves and Dragonborn just flat-out are not.

Gnomes are to Elves as Kobolds are to Dragonborn. Gnomes share similar themes as elves (fey-ish race created by a god) and Kobolds share similar themes with Dragonborn (draconic race), but are undeniably completely different mechanically, culturally, mentally, and physically. I feel the same way about Ogres and Hill Giants; if the only notable difference between the creatures is their size, there's no good reason to keep both of them. If one can fulfill the purpose of the other by letting it be one size smaller/larger, there's no purpose in having both of them.
That's fine. Just don't expect everyone to suddenly just throw their hands and say "Gee you're right!" just because you said you don't like them.
I didn't expect that. I just more expected "Okay, here are some ways to use them that you might prefer" to be awfully more common of a response than "just shut up and ignore them!"

Some people did offer examples of how they use halflings differently from the core game, and others offered interpretations of the core game's description of halflings that were slightly more compelling to me than the base halfling lore, but those were all very rare responses scattered throughout a sea of "you're wrong and not thinking about them enough" and "you do realize that you're not being forced to use them" posts.

I at least expected people to agree that they were treated differently from most other races in the game. That wasn't even agreed upon.
I, and others, have explained why we like them. You can't please everyone. 🤷‍♂️
And it all boiled down to basically "Tolkien", like I said in the OP. That proves my point. They're only in the game because of Tolkien, they're only played because of Tolkien, and they're only ever represented in the books as basically how Tolkien presented Hobbits but with some D&Disms attached (pantheon of race-specific gods, dislike for ogres, and unexplained mechanical differences to justify them being a different race).

You can't please everyone, but that's no excuse for not attempting to, IMHO.
 

lingual

Adventurer
Hmm. Can D&D 6e or some future completely-digital edition of D&D have an Ignore Button for different races and other parts of D&D? Just a thought . . . :unsure:
You don't really need a button. I recommended earlier that people can just tear out those pages from the PHB if they want. That's sort of a big feature of the game. No one is going to go to you table and demand those pages to be reinserted. Or demand that every 20th character be a halflings.

The length of this thread is because we have a very hard time saying "agree to disagree".

Also, some here have tried to make it a point to "objectively" prove that halflings are "bad".
Someone else has pushed for them to be removed from the PHB. It's when people try to convince others that their opinion and enjoyment is "wrong", it crosses into the "badwrongfun" territory. I hope they do add more lore for halflings and other races. I just don't think anything needs to forced upon anyone.
 

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