D&D General RA Salvatore Wants To Correct Drizzt’s Racist Tropes

In an interview with Polygon, the author talks about how the drow are currently being redefined in D&D, and how he wants to be part of that process.

”But on the other hand, if the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away, be buried under the deepest pit, and never brought out again. I was unaware of that. I admit it. I was oblivious.

Drow are now split into (at least) three types — the familiar Udadrow of Menzoberranzan, the arctic-themed Aevendrow, and the jungle-themed Lorendrow. Salvatore's new novel, Starlight Enclave, helps to expand the drows' role in the narrative.

D&D’s Drizzt books were built on racist tropes. R.A. Salvatore wants to change that

‘If the drow are being portrayed as evil, that’s a trope that has to go away’

www.polygon.com

In 2020 WotC made a public statement about how they would be treating drow and orcs going forward -- "Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated. That’s just not right, and it’s not something we believe in. "

Commitment to Diversity | Dungeons & Dragons

D&D continues to be made as diverse as possible with the reminder that only a diverse group of adventurers can overcome obstacles.

dnd.wizards.com

 

[OakenHart]

In regards to some of the general talk of "it's a fictional race, it doesn't matter", I don't believe it's anyone being "evil" that's the issue. It's painting the entire race as evil for being that race, rather than pointing to specific group's practices/beliefs (and not inherent to the race itself). That line of thinking, as well as saying all of a particular race are of that culture, reflects some problematic thinking in the real world. Drow who follow Llolth are in general evil sure, but you have this entire other group of Drow who follow Eilistraee, and well before the more current talk of how races are described. It's already in the material that an entire race previously described as all evil aren't all evil.

I think it's more a call for better characterization and better writing, unless I have misunderstood this entire thing (which is of course very possible).

 

[eyeheartawk]

I just think this could have been handled in a less kludgy way, other than "here are two good, thriving and relatively populous Drow civilizations that existed this whole time and nobody knew about until two months ago". They could have woven it into the canon that some rebels took down the current order in Menzoberranzan after a conflict etc etc. There were lots of ways to go and they went with the dumbest one.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

Oh, I have no doubt that dozens of articles have been published on this subject in many platforms since the drows were first described back in the 70's.
What I can't wrap my mind around is the notion that ACTUAL black people would be ACTUALLY offended by the skin color of a fantasy species in a fantasy game... Nobody would say in good faith that they actually think the Drow are some attempt to depict an ethnicity from the real world.

Na true scotsman much?

 

[DEFCON 1]

It amazes me that people get hung up about supposed stereotyping of made-up species and cultures. Take a step back and think on that: doesn't it seem absurd to lose any sleep at all over something that is completely fictional? Can people no longer tell the difference?

How long have you been on EN World? There's not a single thing related to D&D (a completely fictional game) that doesn't cause people to freak out over it... especially when it gets changed.

Take a look at some of these threads... there are hundreds of thousands of words and minutes spent going on and on and on complaining about every single facet of this fictional game. And while it might be interesting to do a search to see if there have been any threads in the past where you have posted about stuff in the game that had gotten you all pissed off... I actually don't care enough to do so. But it would not shock me if there was. People find all sorts of ridiculous parts of this game to lose sleep over, so we all have to be careful not to throw stones.

 

[wellis]

Yeah, because no one could possibly in good faith ever make a connection between the drow and black people...(but more importantly, the bigger issue that dark skinned races are almost universally portrayed as evil, which aligns with decades of racist tropes in real life)

View attachment 141012

I think your argument would hold more weight if this image wasn't from the 1980s but was from the 2010s.

And wasn't that literally one cover out of how many others that instead use "Caucasian" features for the drow?

My drow will remain dark-skinned (with an albino offshoot) and matriarchal, but I will be more careful not to attempt to tie it to any real-world culture.

...In no way do the drow of all people in Forgotten Realms depict any real-world culture one can think of.

To be kind of honest, the drow are so weird it feels like you truly need to reach hard to say they're shitting on some real world ethnicity or culture.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I think your argument would hold more weight if this image wasn't from the 1980s but was from the 2010s.

...In no way do the drow of all people in Forgotten Realms depict any real-world culture one can think of.

This part I said is still very much relevant in the 2010s:

"but more importantly, the bigger issue that dark skinned races are almost universally portrayed as evil, which aligns with decades of racist tropes in real life"

 

[pumasleeve]

"sometimes a snake is just a snake"

If one is going to make the assertion that drow or orcs are a racist stereotype, you will have to show me more than " drow have dark skin = racist" More than anything else, you will have to show me INTENT, that the people behind these creations meant to portray real world peoples with them. I will earnestly look at anything anyone wants to submit, sources I have looked at thus do show intent but rather rely on an interpretive framework to establish these connections. IF I thought any artist I follow intentionally put forth work with the goal of portraying any group of people in a harmful manner I would eliminate any works by this artist from my collection, and I question companies that use disclaimers such as "...these stereotypes were wrong then and are wrong now" yet still profit off the revenue gained from said product.

I realize this is an important discussion and welcome the thought being put forth.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

How long have you been on EN World? There's not a single thing related to D&D (a completely fictional game) that doesn't cause people to freak out over it... especially when it gets changed.

Take a look at some of these threads... there are hundreds of thousands of words and minutes spent going on and on and on complaining about every single facet of this fictional game. And while it might be interesting to do a search to see if there have been any threads in the past where you have posted about stuff in the game that had gotten you all pissed off... I actually don't care enough to do so. But it would not shock me if there was. People find all sorts of ridiculous parts of this game to lose sleep over, so we all have to be careful not to throw stones.

It bears repeating from the Bahamut/Tiamat thread: the text of D&D exists and can be analyzed as a set of discrete literary objects. What you do at your table has no bearing on the contents of the text, or criticisms thereof.

 

[Umbran]

Drows are not even human to begin with. Just like another poster said here, it's all artificial trouble making as I see it.

Please watch this:


They are not human. But they are completely made up by humans - they are the direct result of human choices.

 

[Sacrosanct]

If one is going to make the assertion that drow or orcs are a racist stereotype, you will have to show me more than " drow have dark skin = racist" More than anything else, you will have to show me INTENT, that the people behind these creations meant to portray real world peoples with them.

Something doesn't have to be made with racist intent in order for it to be racist. Intent is nowhere in the definition of racism. In fact, I'd posit that most racist* depictions we see are not intended at all, but rather made out of not knowing any better (including but not limited to never being the one impacted by the racism, so you don't see it when you're making it, or growing up where such things are accepted, etc.)

*or sexist, or homoophobic, or anything else