Cap'n Kobold
Hero
Don't several existing subclass features do exactly this already, just with a little less damage? (Adding casting modifier to spell damage.)I said I would make it a 5th-level spell. A full caster would have to be 9th level to cast a 5th-level spell two times a day. Further as I have alluded to earlier, a full caster would not have things like heavy armor or martial weapons and it would be a specific spell, it would count against spells known and would not be an extra 9.5 damage to any spell he wanted to cast.
For example, this caster would have in his spellbook a custom spell called "Fireball with enhanced damage to one creature" that spell would be a 5th level spell, it would count against his spells known. He would also have to know a 3rd-level fireball if he wanted to be able to cast a normal fireball. If he wanted an enhanced lighting bolt he would need to know another 5th-level spell known to do it with lightning bolt. This balances the ability by taking away the versatility and tying it to the specific spell in the same manner as the spells you are comparing it against. Arbitrarily adding damage is fundamentally different than adding damage to a specific spell.
I know Celestial Warlocks get something like that, and I'm sure other classes do as well.
If you're using Fireball as a single-target spell.An extra 9.5 damage on a fireball is a full 2 levels higher in casting and it is not something that can be combined with another spell.
Is that something that you do often?
Shouldn't be an issue: - Remember we're talking about a character that doesn't get multiple attacks so it is less "Two actions!" and more "Additional damage to one target of the spell provided you make a hit roll and they are in reach/range of the weapon."Mostly I am worried about breaking action economy regularly - allowing two actions on one turn repeatedly.
Hmm. No. I don't think so. Remember that we're not comparing one specific ability against another, we are comparing performance of the entire character against another. Worrying about comparing with Paladin Smite is only relevant if the archetype has the same performance as the Paladin in other ways.When applied to chromatic orb it outdamages a paladins smite cast with the same slot by a full 33% and when you consider all the variations for different spells it adds far more variety to the effects and delivery. That is OP by quite a bit.
Why specifically would a half-caster not be able to do this until 9th level with a 1st level spell?So yes, casting chromatic orb using a 1st-leve spell slot for this is VERY overpowered. If you upped the slot and made it be cast 2 levels higher (use a 3rd-level slot to cast it as a first level spell) it would not be so bad in terms of damage disparity. I still think it would be very powerful because of the sheer variety but would not be op. This would mean with a half-caster you could not do it at all though until 9th-level and not be able to do it with a 3rd level spell until 17th-level.
Then given the subclass in question never granted Heavy Armour, that should alleviate your concerns on that front shouldn't it?They more than balance out the differences, because they do not make you choose between dex and strength
To start with your math is incorrect. In melee Martial weapons are worth 2 points of damage for a dex-based character (dagger 2.5 vs Rapier 4.5).
In strength-based melee weapons it is 2.5 damage without a reach advantage (staff/spear vs greatsword) or 1 point with a reach advantage (staff vs glaive/halberd). Note I did not consider a Lance in this discussion because of the limited conditions it can be used effectively. This is a baseline, it gets worse when you consider armor as well.
Heavy Armor with a shield is 10 points of AC vs an unarmored character. Further it is always on and does not cost any spell slots. Yes you can build a high-dexterity character to be close to or even better than that with limited use abilities and spells but you have to invest a ton to do it, especially in dexterity itself, which reduces the variety of weapons you can use for damage and the effectiveness of your spells.
To put a number on this when we are talking about both of these at the same time - investing in dexterity to boost AC means you can't boost strength and can't use a staff effectively. So now you are not comparing a staff to a greatsword any more. Instead you have to go finnesse and now you are comparing a dagger to a greatsword. That is a whopping 4.5 points of damage difference. Boost strength to use a better weapon and your AC is no wear near what it is with plate. The guy with heavy armor gets both of these (high AC and high strength weapons)
We are looking at a subclass that has equivalent performance, not a class that does exactly the same things in the same way as other classes.In theory no. But the Bladesinger is the most powerful subclass in the game by a substantial margin and we don't need an even better GISH that would be more powerful yet.
In short, they should be equal and that is why you whould not be able to swing a sword and cast an action spell on the same turn.
Yes and they can not both cast a leveled spell and make an attack as an action, even at 20th level. Finally they are a third-caster, not a half caster.
Yes, far more powerful than any other class can do. As I said above classes should be about equal.
Look at what other classes can do in terms of mixing sword and spell and base your build on that if you want it to be equal.
No, I don't think so.The bladesinger is not taking 2 actions on his turn to do it, further at the level she gets fireball she can only even attack once per turn.
The bladesinger doesn't have heavy armor, and can use bladesong only 3 times per day at that level to get AC equivalent to this and out of bladesong has to burn spells to get that AC out of bladesong.
The bladesinger has to pump dexterity to keep his AC high, making her spell saving throw lower
The bladesinger only has proficiency in daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs, light crossbows and one other 1-handed melee weapon. She does not even have simple weapon proficiency.
And the bladesinger is the most powerful class in the game. I think this illustrates my point!
No-one other than you is talking about taking two actions in a round.
The suggested subclass doesn't have heavy armour, so that was never a worry.
Everyone wants high Dexterity, because of the all-important Initiative, as well as one of the more common saves that characters tend to have to make.
The Eldritch Knight would be making multiple attacks, each dealing more damage, in addition to being able to cast the Shatter spell wherever they wanted. Furthermore, the Eldritch Knight is probably dealing more damage on the other rounds in the combat, when they aren't burning spell slots.Also as a point - you can actually do this with a fighter Eldritch Kingth using Action Surge starting at level 3. He can do it once per short rest. He can do it twice at 17th level. He could do the attack-shatter combo you noted at 7th level once per short rest and twice total per day.
Because I do not think that it will push the overall performance past that of a Bladesinger for example. The subclass's main damage capability comes through the use of spells, but they are only a half-caster. - But a half-caster without Heavy Armour proficiency, Extra Attack, Fighting Style etc. The intent behind adding a weapon attack to spellcasting is to bring the power of the spell up to the same level as a spell that a full-caster like the Bladesinger could cast at the same level.Why do you think this character should be able to do it more than that? When it takes an EK until level 7 to do shatter/attack and Bladesinger until level 11 (albeit with more powerful options available) - how can you say it is balanced when you want to do this more often than either, and at an earlier level to boot.