D&D 5E Warlock's Pact of the Chain's Imp, Quasit, and Psuedodragon.

[tommybahama]

Pact of the Chain is well balanced without the variants.


They get a good invocation in Tasha's to further buff the familiar.

The variants are overboard. Magic resistance alone is very good.

Imagine my surprise when I saw this 3 year old video in my recommends tonight that argues that the imp's magic resistance doesn't transfer over. According to the YouTuber, the magic resistance only applies as part of an infernal contract with the imp. If you gain the imp familiar from the find familiar spell or warlock invocation it is only a spirit that takes the form of an imp. Most relevant part starts at about 7:42 into the video.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Why would we need a video to explain what is in the text of the Find Familiar spell?

Of course, most pact of the chain special invocations do not specify that your familiar must be acquired by casting the Find Familiar spell.

 

[tommybahama]

Why would we need a video to explain what is in the text of the Find Familiar spell?

Of course, most pact of the chain special invocations do not specify that your familiar must be acquired by casting the Find Familiar spell.

The monster manual says that "the imp can enter into a contract to serve another creature as a familiar, . . . While the imp is within 10 feet of its master, the master shares the imp's Magic Resistance trait." I assume this is why Ad_hoc thought the imp familiar might be too powerful. According to the video, the warlock doesn't gain that benefit with the find familiar spell.

I'm not sure about your last sentence. The Pact of the Chain boon says, "You learn the find familiar spell and can cast it as a ritual. The spell doesn’t count against your number of spells known. When you cast the spell, you can choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: imp, pseudodragon, quasit, or sprite." What invocation provides a familiar without the find familiar spell?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The monster manual says that "the imp can enter into a contract to serve another creature as a familiar, . . . While the imp is within 10 feet of its master, the master shares the imp's Magic Resistance trait." I assume this is why Ad_hoc thought the imp familiar might be too powerful. According to the video, the warlock doesn't gain that benefit with the find familiar spell.

I'm not sure about your last sentence. The Pact of the Chain boon says, "You learn the find familiar spell and can cast it as a ritual. The spell doesn’t count against your number of spells known. When you cast the spell, you can choose one of the normal forms for your familiar or one of the following special forms: imp, pseudodragon, quasit, or sprite." What invocation provides a familiar without the find familiar spell?

You can get an imp by entering into a contract with it, as stated in the monster manual. In which case it follows the monster manual rules. But it also benefits from warlock class features that state "your familiar", A DM might role-play acquiring such a contract for a fiendpact warlock as part of an interaction with their patron. Such a familiar does not benefit from the features of the Find Familiar spell, such as temporary dismissal, or summoning a replacement if it dies.

Alternatively, you can cast Find Familiar. in which case your familiar is "in the form of" an imp. It is not an actual imp. It has the advantages (e.g. temporary dismissal, replacement on death) and the disadvantages (no attacks, no shared magic resistance) of the spell.

 

[Asisreo]

Alternatively, you can cast Find Familiar. in which case your familiar is "in the form of" an imp. It is not an actual imp. It has the advantages (e.g. temporary dismissal, replacement on death) and the disadvantages (no attacks, no shared magic resistance) of the spell.

Would you conclude that a wizard also couldn't polymorph themselves into a spellcasting vampire or dragon since those are also variants?

What about shadow dragons or dracolichs?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Would you conclude that a wizard also couldn't polymorph themselves into a spellcasting vampire or dragon since those are also variants?

What about shadow dragons or dracolichs?

Given that the wizard is not polymophing themselves using the Find Familiar spell, I don't see any connection.

The Find Familiar spell specifies exactly what forms the familiar can take. Pact of the chain adds additional forms, but makes no mention of variants.

 

[Asisreo]

Given that the wizard is not polymophing themselves using the Find Familiar spell, I don't see any connection.

They're using the spellcasting mechanic. Notably, the connection is that they neither of them really changes the creature, it just changes the form they take. You've brought up this distinction that the familiar isn't an Imp, but merely in the form of an Imp.

Would you say a player polymorphed into a Vampire isn't really a Vampire and therefore can't be the spellcasting variant?

 

[Bolares]

Would you conclude that a wizard also couldn't polymorph themselves into a spellcasting vampire or dragon since those are also variants?

Polymorph applies only to beasts the wizard couldn't transform into a vampire or dragon, variant or not.

 

[Bolares]

By RAW I''d say you can't get the benefits from the variant. Because the MM specifically mentions what I'd have to do to make those creatures become your familiar and grant you the benefits... also, the familiar in the find familiar spell is a spitir that takes the form of a creature listed on the find familiar (or pact of the chain) spell.

That's what I read as RAW, but I'd probably allow the variants in my game, because I like powerfull PCs in my games.

 

[Asisreo]

Polymorph applies only to beasts the wizard couldn't transform into a vampire or dragon, variant or not.

By "Polymorph" I include both 4th-level Polymorph and True Polymorph.