D&D General The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I did not "pull that number out of my rear" and you clearly aren't thinking things through if you are thinking 25 is in anyway accurate, because you are missing some blatantly obvious facts.
Ultimately we are discussing 5e and in 5e there are 25 listed Greyhawk deities.
But, before I have the list (don't worry everyone, it will be spoilered for obvious reasons) I do want to remind you of what I said, because you are going to immediately turn around and try and "well, actually" me. I said "rounding to a million per god". Remember, in 3.5 what it states that Greater Gods (ranks 16-20) "Called greater deities, these entities may have millions of mortal worshipers, and they command respect even among other deities."

Millions. Plural. So the most powerful greaters might have 10 million or more worshipers. So, I was doing a Fermi Estimation, picking a number that was likely fairly close to an average, to get a rough sense.
Intermediate are hundreds of thousands. Greaters MAY have millions, but they aren't required to have plural millions, so 1 million is all that is required. You are ignoring the minimum and assuming more than is probable. You are also assuming that all of the gods are greater, when very few actually are. So no, your 155 million estimate isn't even close to being accurate.
Now, the list of every single greyhawk setting deity by 3.5, when this ranking system was implemented:

  1. Beory, goddess of the Oerth, Nature, and Rain.
  2. Boccob, god of Magic, Arcane Knowledge, Balance, and Foresight.
  3. Incabulos, god of Plagues, Sickness, Famine, Nightmares, Drought, and Disasters.
  4. Istus, goddess of Fate, Destiny, Divination, Future, and Honesty.
  5. Mictlantecuhtli, god of Death, Darkness, Murder, and the Underworld.
  6. Nerull, god of Death, Darkness, Murder, and the Underworld.
  7. Pelor, god of the Sun, Light, Strength, and Healing.
  8. Quetzalcoatl, god of the Air, Birds, and Snakes.
  9. Rao, god of Peace, Reason and Serenity.
  10. Tezcatlipoca, god of the Sun, Moon, the Night, Scheming, Betrayals, and Lightning.
  11. Uvot, god of Prosperity.
  12. Breeka, goddess of Living Things.
  13. Celestian, god of Stars, Space and Wanderers.
  14. Coatlicue, goddess of Birth, Death, and Earth.
  15. Ehlonna, goddess of Forests, Woodlands, Flora and Fauna, and Fertility.
  16. Erythnul, god of Hate, Envy, Malice, Panic, Ugliness, and Slaughter.
  17. Fharlanghn, god of Horizons, Distance, Travel, and Roads.
  18. Heironeous, god of Chivalry, Justice, Honor, War, Daring, and Valor.
  19. Hextor, god of War, Discord, Massacres, Conflict, Fitness, and Tyranny.
  20. Huhueteotl, god of Fire and the Motion of Time.
  21. Kord, god of Athletics, Sports, Brawling, Strength, and Courage.
  22. Lendor, god of Time, Tedium, Patience, and Study.
  23. Nola, goddess of the Sun.
  24. Obad-Hai, god of Nature, Woodlands, Freedom, Hunting, and Beasts.
  25. Olidammara, god of Music, Revels, Wine, Rogues, Humor, and Tricks.
  26. Pholtus, god of Light, Resolution, Law, and Order.
  27. Procan, god of Seas, Sea Life, Salt, Sea Weather, and Navigation.
  28. Ralishaz, god of Chance, Ill Luck, Misfortune, and Insanity.
  29. Saint Cuthbert, god of Common Sense, Wisdom, Zeal, Honesty, Truth, and Discipline.
  30. Tharizdun, god of Eternal Darkness, Decay, Entropy, Malign Knowledge, and Insanity.
  31. Tlaloc, god of Rain.
  32. Tlazoteotl, goddess of Earth Mother, Agriculture, and Nature.
  33. Tonatiuh, god of Sun and Misfortune.
  34. Trithereon, god of Individuality, Liberty, Retribution, and Self-Defense.
  35. Ulaa, goddess of Hills, Mountains, and Gemstones.
  36. Vogan, god of Weather and Storms.
  37. Wee Jas, goddess of Magic, Death, Vanity, and Law.
  38. Zilchus, god of Power, Prestige, Money, Business, and Influence.
  39. Allitur, god of Ethics and Propriety.
  40. Atroa, goddess of Spring, East Wind, and Renewal.
  41. Beltar, goddess of Malice, Caves, and Pits.
  42. Berei, goddess of Home, Family, and Agriculture.
  43. Berna, goddess of Passion and Forgiveness.
  44. Bleredd, god of Metal, Mines, and Smiths.
  45. Bralm, goddess of Insects and Industriousness.
  46. Camazotz, god of Bats, Vampires, and the Underworld.
  47. Cyndor, god of Time, Infinity, and Continuity.
  48. Dalt, god of Portals, Doors, Enclosures, Locks, and Keys.
  49. Delleb, god of Reason, Intellect, and Study.
  50. Fortubo, god of Stone, Metals, Mountains, and Guardianship.
  51. Geshtai, goddess of Lakes, Rivers, Wells, and Streams.
  52. Jascar, god of Hills and Mountains.
  53. Joramy, goddess of Fire, Volcanoes, Wrath, Anger, and Quarrels.
  54. Katay, god of Decay, inevitability, Order, and Time.
  55. Kundo, god of Building, Noise, Music, and Defense.
  56. Kurell, god of Jealousy, Revenge, and Theft.
  57. Lirr, goddess of Prose, Poetry, Literature, and Art.
  58. Llerg, god of Beasts and Strength.
  59. Lydia, goddess of Music, Knowledge, and Daylight.
  60. Meyanok, god of Serpents, Poison, Discord, Darkness, and Famine.
  61. Mouqol, god of Trade, Negotiation, Ventures, Appraisal, and Reciprocity.
  62. Myhriss, goddess of Love, Romance, and Beauty.
  63. Norebo, god of Luck, Gambling, and Risks.
  64. Osprem, goddess of Sea voyages, Ships, and Sailors.
  65. Phaulkon, god of the Air, Wind, Clouds, Birds and Archery.
  66. Phyton, god of Nature, Beauty, and Farming.
  67. Pyremius, god of Fire, Poison, and Murder.
  68. Red Fox, god of Crafts and Thievery.
  69. Sotillion, goddess of Summer, South Wind, Ease, and Comfort.
  70. Syrul, goddess of Lies, Deceit, Treachery, and False Promises.
  71. Telchur, god of Winter, Cold, and the North Wind.
  72. Urbanus, god Cities.
  73. Vatun, god of the Northern Barbarians, Cold, Winter, and Arctic Beasts.
  74. Vecna, god of Destructive and Evil Secrets.
  75. Velnius, god of the Sky and Weather.
  76. Wenta, goddess of Autumn, West Wind, Harvest, and Brewing.
  77. Xan Yae, goddess of Twilight, Shadows, Stealth, and Mental Power.
  78. Xanag, goddess of Metals and Beauty.
  79. Xerbo, god of the Sea, Sailing, Money, and Business.
  80. Zodal, god of Mercy, Hope, and Benevolence.
  81. Al'Akbar, god of Guardianship, Faithfulness, Dignity, and Duty.
  82. Ayailla, goddess of Light.
  83. Cas, god of Vengeance and Spite.
  84. Chaav, god of Joy.
  85. Chitza-Atlan, god of Centaurs, Guarding the Underworld, and the Dead.
  86. Damaran, god of Vermin and Cowardice.
  87. Earth Dragon, demigod of Earth, Weather, and Hidden Treasure.
  88. Estanna, goddess of Hearth and Home.
  89. Green Man, god of Growth and Abundance.
  90. Hurakon, god of Floods and Unrestrained Fury.
  91. Iuz, god of Deceit, Pain, Oppression, and Evil.
  92. Kyuss, god of the Creation and Mastery of Undead.
  93. Lastai, goddess of Pleasure, Love, and Passion.
  94. Mayaheine, goddess of Protection, Valor, and Justice.
  95. Merikka, goddess of Farming, Agriculture, and Home.
  96. Phieran, god of Suffering, Endurance, and Perseverance.
  97. Rudd, goddess of Chance, Good Luck, and Skill.
  98. Stern Alia, goddess of Oeridian Culture, Law, and Motherhood.
  99. Vara, goddess of Nightmares and Fear.
  100. Wastri, god of Amphibians, Bigotry, and Self-Deception.
  101. Zagyg, god of Humor, Eccentricity, Occult Lore, and Unpredictability.
  102. Zuoken, god of Physical and Mental Mastery.
  103. Azor'alq, god of Light, Purity, Courage, and Strength.
  104. Daern, goddess of Defenses and Fortifications.
  105. Daoud, god of Humility, Clarity, and Immediacy.
  106. Heward, god of Bards and Musicians.
  107. Johydee, goddess of Deception, Espionage, and Protection.
  108. Kelanen, god of Swords, Sword Skill, and Balance.
  109. Keoghtom, god of Secret Pursuits, Natural Alchemy, and Extraplaner Exploration.
  110. Kuroth, god of Theft and Treasure Finding.
  111. Murlynd, god of Magical Technology.
  112. Nazarn, god of Formal and Public Combat.
  113. Tsolorandril, god of Wave Motions.
  114. Vathris, god of Anguish, Lost Causes, and Revenge.
  115. Baba Yaga, adopted mother of Iggwilv.
  116. Cat Lord, the king of all cats.
  117. Krovis, quasi-deity of preventing the domination of the Flanaess.
  118. Nolzur, a member of the Company of Seven.
  119. Quaal, a member of the Company of Seven.
  120. Zol Darklock, a prince of the Plane of Shadow.
  121. Aengrist, god of Law and Order in Cold Climates.
  122. Kaelthiere, goddess of Evil Fire.
  123. Rallaster, god of Murder, Torture, and Psychotic Behavior.
  124. Scahrossar, goddess of Exquisite Pain.
  125. Xammux, god of Indifference and Forbidden Knowledge.
  126. Anguileusis, god of Anguillians.
  127. Blibdoolpoolp, goddess of Kuo-toa, Darkness, Insanity, and Revenge.
  128. Eadro, god of Locathah and Mermen.
  129. Panzuriel, god of Murder, Confusion, and Subversion.
  130. Persana, god of Tritons and Architecture.
  131. Sekolah, god of Sahuagin, Plunder, Hunting, and Tyranny.
  132. Surminare, goddess of Selkies, Beauty, and Peace.
  133. Trishina, goddess of Dolphins, Love, Fidelity, the Young, and Play.
  134. Water Lion, unknown portfolio.
  135. Yeathan, god of the Evil Depths.
  136. Koriel, god of Ki-rin, Learning Protection, and Vigilance Against Evil.
  137. Quorlinn, god of Kenku, Trickery, Disguise, and Thievery.
  138. Remnis, god of Giant Eagles, Sky, and Service.
  139. Stillsong, unknown portfolio.
  140. Syranita, goddess of Aarakocra, Protection, and Watchfulness.
  141. Grankhul, god of Hunting, Senses, Surprise, and Stealth.
  142. Hruggek, god of Bugbears, Violence, and Combat.
  143. Skiggaret, god of Fear.
  144. Stalker, god of Hate, Death, and Cold.
  145. Aasterinian, god of Learning, Invention, and Pleasure.
  146. Astilabor, god of Acquisitiveness, Status, and Wealth.
  147. Bahamut, god of Good Dragons, Wind, and Wisdom.
  148. Chronepsis, god of Fate, Death, and Judgment.
  149. Faluzure, god of Decay, Undeath, and Exhaustion.
  150. Garyx, god of Fire, Destruction, and Renewal.
  151. Hlal, god of Humor, Storytelling, and Inspiration.
  152. Io, god of Dragonkind, Balance, and Peace.
  153. Lendys, god of Balance and Justice.
  154. Rais, goddess of Intellect and Silver Dragonkind
  155. Sardior, god of Neutral Dragons, Night, Psionics, and Secrets.
  156. Tamara, god of Life, Light, and Mercy.
  157. Tiamat, goddess of Evil Dragons, Conquest, and Greed.
  158. Keptolo, demigod of Males, Flattery, Intoxication, Rumor, and Opportunity.
  159. Kiaransalee, demigoddess of Slavery, Vengeance, and Undeath.
  160. Lolth, goddess of Drow, Spiders, Evil, Darkness, and Chaos.
  161. Vhaeraun, god of Thievery and Territory.
  162. Zinzerena, demigoddess of Deception, Humiliation, Ambush, and Assassination.
  163. Abbathor, god of Greed.
  164. Berronar Truesilver, goddess of Safety, Truth, Home, and Healing.
  165. Clanggedin Silverbeard, god of Battle and War.
  166. Diinkarazan, god of Vengeance.
  167. Diirinka, god of Magic, Savants, Knowledge, and Cruelty.
  168. Dumathoin, god of Exploration and Mining.
  169. Dugmaren Brightmantle, god of Scholarship, Discovery, and Invention.
  170. Gendwar Argrim, hero-god of Fatalism and Obsession.
  171. Hansaeth, god of War, Carousing, and Alcohol.
  172. Laduguer, god of Duergar, Crafts, Magic, and Protection.
  173. Moradin, god of Dwarves, Creation, Smithing, Protection, Metalcraft, and Stonework.
  174. Muamman Duathal, god of Expatriates, Urban Dwarves, Travellers, and Exiles.
  175. Mya, goddess of Clan, Family, and Wisdom.
  176. Roknar, god of Greed, Intrigue, Lies, and Earth.
  177. Tharmekhûl, god of the Forge, Fire, and Warfare.
  178. Thautam, god of Magic and Darkness.
  179. Valkauna, goddess of Oaths, Death, and Birth.
  180. Vergadain, god of Wealth and Luck.
  181. Aerdrie Faenya, goddess of Air, Weather, Avians, Rain, and Fertility.
  182. Alobal Lorfiril, god of Hedonism, Mirth, Magic, and Revelry.
  183. Araleth Letheranil, god of Light.
  184. Corellon Larethian, god of Elves, Magic, Music, Arts, Crafts, Poetry, and Warfare.
  185. Deep Sashelas, god of Aquatic Elves, Oceans, Knowledge, Beauty, and Water Magic.
  186. Elebrin Liothiel, god of Nature, Gardens, Orchards, and the Harvest.
  187. Erevan Ilesere, god of Mischief, Change, and Rogues.
  188. Fenmarel Mestarine, god of Wild Elves, Outcasts, Scapegoats, and Isolation.
  189. Gadhelyn, hero-god of Independence, Outlawry, Feasting, and Hunting.
  190. Hanali Celanil, goddess of Love, Romance, Beauty, Fine Art, and artists.
  191. Kirith Sotheril, goddess of Divinations and Enchantments.
  192. Labelas Enoreth, god of Time, Longevity, and History.
  193. Melira Taralen, goddess of Bards and Minstrels.
  194. Naralis Analor, god of Healing, Easing of Pain, and Death.
  195. Rellavar Danuvien, god of Frost Sprites and Protection from Cold.
  196. Rillifane Rallathil, god of Wood Elves, Woodlands, Nature, and Druids.
  197. Sehanine Moonbow, goddess of Mysticism, Dreams, Far Journeys, Death, Full Moons, and Transcendence.
  198. Solonor Thelandira, god of Archery, Hunting, and Wilderness Survival.
  199. Tarsellis Meunniduin, god of Winter, Mountains, and Snow Elves.
  200. Tethrin Veraldé, god of Bladesingers.
  201. Vandria Gilmadrith, goddess of War, Guardianship, Justice, Grief, Vigilance, and Decision.
  202. Ye'Cind, demigod of Music and Magical Songs.
  203. Annam, god of Magic, Knowledge, Fertility, and Philosophy.
  204. Diancastra, hero-goddess of Trickery, Wit, Impudence, and Pleasure.
  205. Grolantor, god of Hill Giants, Ettins, Ogres, Hunting, and Combat.
  206. Hiatea, goddess of Nature, Agriculture, Hunting, Females, and Children.
  207. Iallanis, goddess of Love, Mercy, and Beauty.
  208. Karontor, god of Deformity, Hatred, and Beasts.
  209. Kostchtchie, demon prince of Wrath.
  210. Memnor, god of Pride, Mental Prowess, and Control.
  211. Skoraeus Stonebones, god of Stone Giants.
  212. Stronmaus, god of Sun, Sky, Weather, and Joy.
  213. Surtr, god of Fire Giants.
  214. Thrym, god of Frost Giants, Cold, Ice, and Magic.
  215. Vaprak, god of Combat and Greed.
  216. Gorellik, god of Hunting, Hyenas, and Hyenadons.
  217. Yeenoghu, demon prince and god of Gnolls.
  218. Baervan Wildwanderer, god of Forests, Nature, and Travel.
  219. Baravar Cloakshadow, god of Illusions, Protection, Deception, and Hatred of Goblinoids.
  220. Callarduran Smoothhands, god of Svirfneblin, Protection, Earth, and Mining.
  221. Flandal Steelskin, god of Mining, Smithing, and Fitness.
  222. Gaerdal Ironhand, god of Protection, Vigilance, and Combat.
  223. Garl Glittergold, god of Gnomes, Protection, Humor, Trickery, Gemcutting, and Smithing.
  224. Gelf Darkhearth, god of Entropy and Revenge.
  225. The Glutton, god of Disaster and Greed.
  226. Nebelun, god of Inventions and Good Luck.
  227. Rill Cleverthrush, god of Invention, Creation, and the Sky.
  228. Roykyn, hero-goddess of Cruelty.
  229. Segojan Earthcaller, god of Earth and Nature.
  230. Sheyanna Flaxenstrand, goddess of Love, Beauty, and Passion.
  231. Urdlen, god of Greed, Bloodlust, Evil, Hatred, and Blind Destruction.
  232. Bargrivyek, goblin god of Cooperation and Territory.
  233. Khurgorbaeyag, goblin god of Slavery, Oppression, and Morale.
  234. Maglubiyet, god of Goblins, War, and Rulership.
  235. Nomog-Geaya, god of Hobgoblins, War, and Authority.
  236. Cegilune, goddess of Larvae, Hags, and the Moon.
  237. Arvoreen, god of Protection, Vigilance, and War.
  238. Brandobaris, god of Stealth, Thieves, and Adventuring.
  239. Charmalaine, hero-goddess of Keen Senses and Narrow Escapes.
  240. Cyrrollalee, goddess of Friendship, Trust, and Home.
  241. Sheela Peryroyl, goddess of Nature, Agriculture, and Weather.
  242. Urogalan, demigod of Earth, Death, and Protection of the Dead.
  243. Yondalla, goddess of Halflings, Protection, Fertility, Children, Security, Leadership, Diplomacy, Wisdom, the Cycle of Life, Creation, Family and Familial Love, Tradition, Community, Harmony, and Prosperity.
  244. Dakarnok, god of Destruction and Havoc.
  245. Gaknulak, god of Protection, Stealthy, Trickery, and Traps.
  246. Kuraulyek, god of Urds.
  247. Kurtulmak, god of Kobolds, Trapmaking, Mining, and War.
  248. Meriadar, god of Patience, Meditation, Tolerance, Arts, and Crafts.
  249. Gruumsh, god of Orcs, Conquest, Survival, Strength, and Territory.
  250. Bahgtru, god of Strength and Stupidity.
  251. Ilneval, god of Warfare and Leadership.
  252. Luthic, goddess of Female Orcs, Fertility, Medicine, Healing, Servitude, Caves, and Homes.
  253. Shargaas, god of Darkness, Thieves, Stealth, Night, and Undead.
  254. Yurtrus, god of Death and Disease.
  255. Jazirian, god of Couatls, Community, Peace, Learning, and Parenthood.
  256. Laogzed, god of Troglodytes and Eating.
  257. Merrshaulk, god of Yuan-ti, Poison, and Somnolence.
  258. Parrafaire, god of Guardianship.
  259. Ramenos, god of Bullywugs, Somnolence, Intoxication, and Decay.
  260. Semuanya, god of Lizardfolk, Survival, Propagation, and the Quanak: a psionic sub-race of lizardfolk.
  261. Sess'innek, demon lord of Lizardfolk, Civilization, and Domination.
  262. Shekinester, goddess of Nagas, Destruction, Wisdom, Knowledge, and Protection.
  263. Sixin, god of Xill, War, Intrigue, and Deception.
  264. Balador, god of Werebears, Protection, and Fraternity.
  265. Ferrix, goddess of Weretigresses, Play, Curiosity, and Hunting.
  266. Daragor, god of Marauding Beasts, Bloodlusts, and Pain.
  267. Eshebala, goddess of Vanity, Charm, Green, and Cunning.
  268. Karaan, god of Lycanthropes and Bestial Creatures.
  269. Squerrik, god of Wererats, Thievery, Disguise, and Concealment.
  270. Caoimhin, god of Food and Shy Friendship.
  271. Damh, god of Dance, Song, and Celebrations.
  272. Eachthighern, god of Healing, Loyalty, and Protection.
  273. Emmantiensien, god of Treants, Trees, and Deep and Hidden Magic.
  274. Fionnghuala, goddess of Swanmays, Communications, and Sorority.
  275. Nathair Sgiathach, god of Mischief and Pranks.
  276. Oberon, god of Nature, Wild Places, and Animals.
  277. Queen of Air and Darkness, goddess of Magic, Darkness, and Murder.
  278. Skerrit, god of Centaurs, Community, and Natural Balances.
  279. Squelaiche, god of Trickery and Illusions.
  280. Titania, goddess of Faerie folk and Realms.
  281. Valarian, god of Good Magical Beasts.
  282. Verenestra, goddess of Female Faeries, Charm, and Beauty.
  283. Afflux, god of Inquiry, Necromancy, and Death.
  284. Doresain, god of Necromancy and Ghouls.
  285. Evening Glory, goddess of Love, Beauty, and Immortality.
  286. Kanchelsis, god of Blood, Debauch, Magic, and Vampirisim.
  287. Mellifleur, god of Lichdom and Magic.
  288. Orcus, Demon Prince of the Undead.
  289. Dark God, god of Eternal Darkness, Cold, Decay, Enfeeblement, and Paralysis.
  290. Elder Elemental God, god of Elemental Forces and Magic.
  291. Great Mother, deity of Beholders, Magic, Fertility, and Tyranny.
  292. Gzemnid, god of Beholders, Gases, and Fogs.
  293. Ilsensine, god of Illithids, Mental Domination and Magic.
  294. Ilxendren, god of the Ixzan.
  295. Maanzecorian, god of Illithids, Knowledge, and Philosophy.
  296. Patient One, god of Aberrations.
  297. Piscaethces, goddess of Aboleths, Domination and Oppression.
  298. Psilofyr, god of Myconids, Community, Healing, and Philosophy.
  299. Raxivort, god of Xvarts, Rats, Wererats, and Bats.
  300. Sixin, god of Xills.

Actually, I'll admit, I'm using a different list this time. Originally I counted all the Demigods as a single unit per category as well, but with 300 gods of varying power level, I think my 155 million would be... and underestimate of the number of people needed to support this many deities. I think putting a nail in the coffin that people ever followed this rule at DnD headquarters
Your 155 million estimate is bonkers. Each of the demigods only has a few thousand worshippers at best. The lessers a few thousand to a few tens of thousands. Intermediates a few hundred thousands. And there are only a handful of greaters to even break the million mark. And that's with the 3e list. 5e only has 25 gods on it and that list includes greaters, lessers and demigods. There are no intermediate gods in 5e.
 

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Voadam

Legend
Greyhawk has not only the core Greyhawk ones listed in the various core setting books through the editions (including multiple human ethnicity pantheons), but also things like the Meso-American ones from the 1e C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan and as expanded in the 2e Scarlet Brotherhood.

Also the standard non-human pantheons (elf, orc, goblin, etc.) are referenced in different points like page 19 of the 3.0 Living Greyhawk Gazetteer.
 

Voadam

Legend
Monster Mythology from 2e has a ton of gods, but the description of how they fit in the D&D worlds is a bit inconsistent with some other lore.

2e Monster Mythology Page 7: "The many deities described in this book are archetypal. That is, versions of them exist in virtually all game worlds where the relevant races are found. The deities of Oerth (GREYHAWK setting) do not hold sway in Tori1 (FORGOTTEN REALMS setting), nor does either group hold sway in the DRAGONLANCE) game world, Krynn. The deities described in this book, however, do not vary greatly from world to world. No matter what the human pantheon, Moradin is the Soul Forger, Great Creator of the Dwarves; no other deity ever holds this place in the dwarven pantheon. Likewise, Gar1 Glittergold always heads the gnomish pantheon, terrible Gruumsh One-Eye is eternally the First Power of the orcish pantheon, and so on."

Using their example, Moradin is not the head of the dwarvish pantheon of the Dragonlance campaign setting, the Krynn gods are the only gods in that setting. The Dwarvish pantheon of Krynn is the normal set of Krynn gods with some Dwarven names and Reorx is not Moradin.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Ultimately we are discussing 5e and in 5e there are 25 listed Greyhawk deities.

So there are no gods for elves, dwarves, gnomes, orcs, or dragons in Greyhawk? Man, that would be interesting having no racial dieties. Oh, wait, a basic google search reveals that those do exist in Greyhawk. So, again, there are not 25 deities in greyhawk, even if you only list the ones in 5e.

Intermediate are hundreds of thousands. Greaters MAY have millions, but they aren't required to have plural millions, so 1 million is all that is required. You are ignoring the minimum and assuming more than is probable. You are also assuming that all of the gods are greater, when very few actually are. So no, your 155 million estimate isn't even close to being accurate.

It is close enough, that's how Fermi estimations work. It accounts for greater gods with tens of millions and intermediates with multiple hundreds of thousands. Without us having to go through and far more complicated math.

Your 155 million estimate is bonkers. Each of the demigods only has a few thousand worshippers at best. The lessers a few thousand to a few tens of thousands. Intermediates a few hundred thousands. And there are only a handful of greaters to even break the million mark. And that's with the 3e list. 5e only has 25 gods on it and that list includes greaters, lessers and demigods. There are no intermediate gods in 5e.

And how many of those 300 gods (by the way, nice moving of goalposts, I distinctly remember you saying "Or heck, 155 gods of any type.") are demigods? How many are lesser gods? Did you even bother reading the list or are you just going to complain that "1 million per god" isn't an estimate that you like?

Also, I like how you are trying to use the 3.5 rules, but object to the 3.5 list. What was it you said before?

In the absence of information to the contrary(and there is no contrary information in 5e), older edition lore is relevant.

There is no information to the contrary that Greyhawk still contains these other deities, but know you want to limit not only to just the list of 25 Greyhawk deities, but also ignore the racial deities that originated in Greyhawk. Intermediate dieties did exist in 3.5, so since you are trying to shove 3.5 rules down our throats, why can't we counter that information by including information from 3.5?
 


Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
So there are no gods for elves, dwarves, gnomes, orcs, or dragons in Greyhawk? Man, that would be interesting having no racial dieties. Oh, wait, a basic google search reveals that those do exist in Greyhawk. So, again, there are not 25 deities in greyhawk, even if you only list the ones in 5e.
That's entirely up to the DM. Remember, new players aren't going to know which non-human gods are or are not in Greyhawk. Also, if you're going to be ticky tack about these things, then so will I. You have to include the populations of Greyspace and all the other planets as well. They too have worshippers of these gods, and the elven navy will have a large presence in a prominent crystal sphere like Greyhawk. Lots more population to add up!!
It is close enough, that's how Fermi estimations work. It accounts for greater gods with tens of millions and intermediates with multiple hundreds of thousands. Without us having to go through and far more complicated math.
No, it's not close enough. 1 million is enough for every demigod and lesser god on the list. And the 10 greaters only need 10 million. Occam's Razor applies here. If the population is low, then the greater gods aren't going to have multimillion followers. So either your estimation of the number of followers is too high, or your population estimation is too high. And yes, I know you got that estimate from someone else.
And how many of those 300 gods (by the way, nice moving of goalposts, I distinctly remember you saying "Or heck, 155 gods of any type.") are demigods? How many are lesser gods? Did you even bother reading the list or are you just going to complain that "1 million per god" isn't an estimate that you like?
There are 10 greater gods and since intermediate gods don't exist anymore, 62 lesser gods.

Also, I like how you are trying to use the 3.5 rules, but object to the 3.5 list. What was it you said before?
This is a mishmash of trying to figure out the 5e gods and their power levels. Not everything from every edition will be applicable. This isn't a white room comparison.
There is no information to the contrary that Greyhawk still contains these other deities, but know you want to limit not only to just the list of 25 Greyhawk deities, but also ignore the racial deities that originated in Greyhawk. Intermediate dieties did exist in 3.5, so since you are trying to shove 3.5 rules down our throats, why can't we counter that information by including information from 3.5?
5e only shows 25 gods plus whichever of the non-human gods the DM decides are on Greyhawk. The non-human deities section says that they are on many worlds, which means that they are not on all of them.
 

Voadam

Legend
3.0 Deities and Demigods page 25 is where the description of divine ranks has the statements about ranks and worshipers progressing from demigods with hundreds to thousands of worshipers to greater deities who "may have millions" that both go up until you hit over-deity status.

Pages 12-13 discuss options in setting up the cosmology for whether gods are dependent or independent of worshippers for their power and the behind the curtain sidebar for the default 3.0 setup (Greyhawk) says: "The deities of the D&D pantheon are independent of mortals for their power, though it’s clear that many use worshipers to augment their power. Deities such as Corellon Larethian, Garl Glittergold, Gruumsh, and Yondalla are deeply concerned with their worshipers and undoubtedly draw some power from them. Boccob is infamous for his indifference toward worshipers."

I feel the page 25 numbers of worshippers could be decent for their optional cosmologies of dependent gods where the numbers could represent direct power correlation, but they are a particularly poor match to Greyhawk where the greater gods have 1e-3e historically been noted for their remoteness and indifference and mostly there is no correlation to deity power.

1e WoG Boxed set page 62:

1633900420635.png
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
I'm still thinking it's a pyramid scheme. Somebody worships one or a couple of lesser/intermediate gods in a pantheon and the greater gods still reap a bit of the energy from the worship, even though they aren't getting prayed to directly.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
That's entirely up to the DM. Remember, new players aren't going to know which non-human gods are or are not in Greyhawk. Also, if you're going to be ticky tack about these things, then so will I. You have to include the populations of Greyspace and all the other planets as well. They too have worshippers of these gods, and the elven navy will have a large presence in a prominent crystal sphere like Greyhawk. Lots more population to add up!!

Seriously? You want to go with "new players won't know that the elves have gods"? That's your defense for blatantly just missing or ignoring racial deties? So, Max, are you a new player? Or, how about it suddenly being the "DMs choice". That didn't seem to matter for... literally anything else we are discussing.

Finally, I don't know what "greyspace" is, but I'm going to guess by the mention of other worlds that you are talking about Spelljammer. So, you now want to change settings and go from discussing Greyhawk, to discussing Spelljammer. Tell me, did the Greyhawk setting books often talk about Spelljammer? Was it just assumed that every Greyhawk book should include Spelljammer lore?

Or is this just you desperately shifting goalposts because you are realizing that you were just plain wrong.


No, it's not close enough. 1 million is enough for every demigod and lesser god on the list. And the 10 greaters only need 10 million. Occam's Razor applies here. If the population is low, then the greater gods aren't going to have multimillion followers. So either your estimation of the number of followers is too high, or your population estimation is too high. And yes, I know you got that estimate from someone else.

No, a million isn't nearly enough for all of them. And there are far more than 10 greaters.

There are 10 greater gods and since intermediate gods don't exist anymore, 62 lesser gods.


You can't even read your own source. If you want to use this source and we have to suddenly shift from 3.5 rules to 5e rules to make all the intermediates into lessers then you have 17 greater gods and 116 "lesser gods" which ignores all of the "demigods"

Could you stop blatantly trying to twist the numbers to reduce the actual deity list of Greyhawk?

This is a mishmash of trying to figure out the 5e gods and their power levels. Not everything from every edition will be applicable. This isn't a white room comparison.

Actually, I've been trying to show you that even if we assume 3.5 as the rules, since they were the only edition to care about this X number of worshipers per god rank that you are clinging to against all reason, that even that wasn't followed. And doing that by highlighting things like an Intermediate god having a "tiny" number of worshipers, which would be impossible since he needs many thousands to be an intermediate god. Or the fact that looking at the greyhawk setting, there are barely enough people to power all these gods, without even touching on those that don't worship, and those that worhsip fiendish cults or GOO cults.

And instead you want to focus on definitions, like trying to suddenly make it matter that intermediate doesn't exist as a category anymore... while still trying to use the rules that HAD intermediate as a category to define how 5e MUST work.

5e only shows 25 gods plus whichever of the non-human gods the DM decides are on Greyhawk. The non-human deities section says that they are on many worlds, which means that they are not on all of them.

You know one of them they are on? Greyhawk. Many of them were created as part of Greyhawk. You don't get to rewrite history just because it weakens your position.
 

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