D&D General The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods

[Maxperson]

And this is in Mordenkainen's on page 32.

"Cambions spawned by demon lords sometimes manifest different abilities from a typical cambion. Graz'zt is notable among demon lords for the many cambions he has spawned across the multiverse. Most famous among them is Iuz, who combined his father's abyssal heritage and his mother's peerless arcane tutelage to become a demigod."

Again, not a lesser god. Not a demigod god. Simply a demigod. And he wasn't born a demigod by that statement. In 5e he BECAME a demigod by growing in power.

So now we have two instances of demigod and one directing us to Appendix B for quasi-deities. You guys now need there to be three errors on the part of the designers in three different books.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Occam's Razor. For you to be correct relies upon professional designers making not one, but two mistakes. For me to be correct requires what it says in print. The simplest explanation is that Iuz is a demigod.

So, none of those other 13 gods count anymore. Good to know we are down to a single inconsistency.

And, no, it doesn't require what is says in print, because here is everything is says in print.

Iuz is the God of Pain and Oppression (PHB)
Iuz grants spells and access to the Death Domain (PHB, with DMG for the actual Death Domain)
Iuz is a demigod (DMG [pg 68 by the way, not 63])
Iuz is half demon(DMG) pg 18
Iuz is a God (DMG) pg 96

To Quote the Death Domain "Gods of the Death domain also embody murder (Anubis, Bhaal, and Pyremius), pain (Iuz or Loviatar), disease or poison (Incabulos, Talona, or Morgion), and the\underworld (Hades and Hel)." pg

So, Iuz is a half demon/demigod/God of Pain.

There is no such classification as Demigod lesser god. It doesn't exist. By RAW, Iuz is only a demigod. You have to fabricate a completely new classification for god in order for that to be correct.

Which brings us back to the classification system

Quasi-Deities state that they can become full deities with enough worshipers. Iuz being a Demigod and a Half Demon Cambion, because Graz'zt is a Godlike Demon, qualifies him as a Quasi-diety who then ascended to become a lesser God due to the worship of his empire. Which isn't a classification I made up, it is literally in the rules and it makes the most sense given the spread of how he is refereed to.

Your other options are

A) Iuz is only a demi-god but he breaks the rules of the classification system by granting spells and answering prayers anyways.
B) Iuz is a god, and the one time he was refered to as a Demigod in the summary of what Greyhawk is/was is because of a copy paste mistake.


Also, while this doesn't address the acolyte... Yes, it is possible that TWO WHOLE mistakes might have been made in 636 pages worth of writing covering seven settings and 20 planes of existence.

 

[Maxperson]

So, none of those other 13 gods count anymore. Good to know we are down to a single inconsistency.

And, no, it doesn't require what is says in print, because here is everything is says in print.

Iuz is the God of Pain and Oppression (PHB)
Iuz grants spells and access to the Death Domain (PHB, with DMG for the actual Death Domain)
Iuz is a demigod (DMG [pg 68 by the way, not 63])
Iuz is half demon(DMG) pg 18
Iuz is a God (DMG) pg 96

To Quote the Death Domain "Gods of the Death domain also embody murder (Anubis, Bhaal, and Pyremius), pain (Iuz or Loviatar), disease or poison (Incabulos, Talona, or Morgion), and the\underworld (Hades and Hel)." pg

So, Iuz is a half demon/demigod/God of Pain.

The DMG death domain is an optional rule.

Quasi-Deities state that they can become full deities with enough worshipers. Iuz being a Demigod and a Half Demon Cambion, because Graz'zt is a Godlike Demon, qualifies him as a Quasi-diety who then ascended to become a lesser God due to the worship of his empire. Which isn't a classification I made up, it is literally in the rules and it makes the most sense given the spread of how he is refereed to.

Your other options are

A) Iuz is only a demi-god but he breaks the rules of the classification system by granting spells and answering prayers anyways.
B) Iuz is a god, and the one time he was refered to as a Demigod in the summary of what Greyhawk is/was is because of a copy paste mistake.


Also, while this doesn't address the acolyte... Yes, it is possible that TWO WHOLE mistakes might have been made in 636 pages worth of writing covering seven settings and 20 planes of existence.

Not two mistakes, three in three different books all on the same topic. Highly unlikely. He also per RAW wasn't born a demigod, he became one, which defies the DMG classifications. Perhaps there are multiple classifications of demigod. One thing is clear, though. He's not anything other than a demigod, despite his presence as an optional rule in the death domain and being on Appendix B as a possible god(per RAW the DM decides who on that list is worshipped).

He's a demigod unless the DM opts to make him a full god. Any by the way, an Acolyte should consider domains when picking a god, even though he doesn't cast spells. The presence of domains in Appendix B is not proof that the god grants spells.

"If you're playing a cleric or a character with the Acolyte background, decide which god your deity serves or served, and consider the deity's suggested domains when selecting your character's domain." PHB page 293

 

[Voadam]

The DMG sidebar does not explicitly specify whether a demigod who ascends to become a full god is no longer referenced as a demigod.

Similar for Lolth in the 5e MM. She is a goddess who became a demon lord. It does not specify if this was an addition of demon lord to being a goddess or a change from goddess to demon lord and no longer a goddess. It is unspecified.

Textual references in 5e to Iuz present tense as both a god and a demigod would indicate that Iuz as an ascended demigod has moved from quasi-deity status to full god status but is still a demigod (in effect a demigod god instead of a demigod quasi-deity).

 

[Maxperson]

The DMG sidebar does not explicitly specify whether a demigod who ascends to become a full god is no longer referenced as a demigod.

It wouldn't make any sense to continue to refer to them that way. In any case, Iuz was not born a demigod in 5e, so that doesn't apply. He became a Demigod.

 

[Faolyn]

The DMG death domain is an optional rule.

How many DMs do you really think disallow the Death and Oathbreaker just because they're in the DMG?

He's a demigod unless the DM opts to make him a full god. Any by the way, an Acolyte should consider domains when picking a god, even though he doesn't cast spells. The presence of domains in Appendix B is not proof that the god grants spells.

"If you're playing a cleric or a character with the Acolyte background, decide which god your deity serves or served, and consider the deity's suggested domains when selecting your character's domain." PHB page 293

An acolyte is a background, not a spellcasting class. This sentence is also terribly written, and they should be ashamed of themselves for the phrase "decide which god your deity serves or served." At any rate, this is clearly a clumsy way of saying "if you're playing a cleric or an acolyte, pick a god. If you're playing a cleric, pick an appropriate domain."

Anyway, just because acolytes can pick a god--even if they could pick a domain!--it doesn't mean that the god they picked can't grant spells. You can be an acolyte of Bane or Bahamut or Moradin and not be a cleric (in one of the games I run, there's a barbarian acolyte of Melora), but that doesn't mean that those gods can't grant spells. They just don't grant spells to anyone who isn't a divine spellcaster.

 

[Faolyn]

The DMG sidebar does not explicitly specify whether a demigod who ascends to become a full god is no longer referenced as a demigod.

Similar for Lolth in the 5e MM. She is a goddess who became a demon lord. It does not specify if this was an addition of demon lord to being a goddess or a change from goddess to demon lord and no longer a goddess. It is unspecified.

Textual references in 5e to Iuz present tense as both a god and a demigod would indicate that Iuz as an ascended demigod has moved from quasi-deity status to full god status but is still a demigod (in effect a demigod god instead of a demigod quasi-deity).

This sounds about right. He's called a demigod, probably because his home plane is the Prime, but he's not actually a demigod in terms of power.

 

[Voadam]

It wouldn't make any sense to continue to refer to them that way. In any case, Iuz was not born a demigod in 5e, so that doesn't apply. He became a Demigod.

In older editions where demigod was a power status he became a demigod power with clerics. I don't believe it says in 5e that he became a demigod.

In 5e if he is the son of a mortal (Iggwilv) and a God (Graz'zt) then he is a demigod. So it would come down to is Graz'zt a god (or if not, is Iggwilv a god). If so then Iuz was born a 5e demigod and when he came to power with clerics that was his demigod gaining ascension to full god status.

If 5e calls him a demigod and 5e defines demigods as those born to mortals and gods then it would seem in 5e he is a demigod born to a mortal and a god.

 

[Voadam]

It wouldn't make any sense to continue to refer to them that way.

The three types of Quasi-Deities, demigods, titans, and vestiges, are not divine power levels but also defined as origins. So it would make sense to still refer casually to an ascended titan as a titan or an ascended vestige as a vestige even though after ascension they are also full gods.

I can see it making sense to refer to Heracles as a demigod.

 

[Maxperson]

In older editions where demigod was a power status he became a demigod power with clerics. I don't believe it says in 5e that he became a demigod.

I quoted it.

And this is in Mordenkainen's on page 32.

"Cambions spawned by demon lords sometimes manifest different abilities from a typical cambion. Graz'zt is notable among demon lords for the many cambions he has spawned across the multiverse. Most famous among them is Iuz, who combined his father's abyssal heritage and his mother's peerless arcane tutelage to become a demigod."

In 5e if he is the son of a mortal (Iggwilv) and a God (Graz'zt) then he is a demigod. So it would come down to is Graz'zt a god (or if not, is Iggwilv a god). If so then Iuz was born a 5e demigod and when he came to power with clerics that was his demigod gaining ascension to full god status.

Says up there Grazz'zt is a demon lord, and that Iuz became a demigod.