D&D 5E Why do Monks only have d8 HP instead of d10 HP?

[Mind of tempest]

Honestly I think you could make a solid case for the Monk as a Rogue subclass.

Frankly Rogue's already have tons of the monk's core payload..... super fast with cunning action, able to deal extra damage through "weak spots", can become expert grapplers (expertise in athletics), able to soak damage through technique (uncanny dodge).

If you had a rogue subclass that granted the unarmed damage and AC without armor, gave them some of the cool mobility stuff like walk on water, and maybe threw in a stunning strike on a sneak attack X times per day.... by gum I think you would have a pretty solid looking monk.

true but that does not mean it should be done.

 

[Stalker0]

true but that does not mean it should be done.

Too late already doing it

 

[Mind of tempest]

Too late already doing it

why not make everything a subclass?

 

[Undrave]

Honestly I think you could make a solid case for the Monk as a Rogue subclass.

Frankly Rogue's already have tons of the monk's core payload..... super fast with cunning action, able to deal extra damage through "weak spots", can become expert grapplers (expertise in athletics), able to soak damage through technique (uncanny dodge). At high levels blindsense and evasion.... all the meat is there.

If you had a rogue subclass that granted the unarmed damage and AC without armor, gave them some of the cool mobility stuff like walk on water, and maybe threw in a stunning strike on a sneak attack X times per day.... by gum I think you would have a pretty solid looking monk.

But again, I don't think 'skill monkey' fits the popular image of a martial artist.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

But again, I don't think 'skill monkey' fits the popular image of a martial artist.

Yeah if the Rogues' thief cant and auto-expertise in thieves tools would be moved to the Thief archetype, it'd let some space to create some kind of monk there, I think.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah if the Rogues' thief cant and auto-expertise in thieves tools would be moved to the Thief archetype, it'd let some space to create some kind of monk there, I thin

Thieves can't and thieves tool are mostly ribbons though if you wish them to be. I mean if I'm playing a straight laced fighter I can just ignore his "proficiency with gambling die" the same.

Rogues don't have to get expertise in thieves tools, and expertise makes perfect sense for a monk. Expertise in athletics, acrobatics, perception, insight....I mean take your pick plenty of skills that rogues can be experts out make perfect sense for a monk as well.

 

[Nefermandias]

So I think the problem with that model is "Tough" actually has two aspects to it in 5e:

• Ability to take lots of pain
• Ability to reduce needed healing.

The fighter for example, is tough because of its high AC AND the fact that it gets a free heal every short rest. The paladin gets lots of healing. The barbarian can soak lots of damage by halving it with rage. Even the rogue can do a similar soak once per round.

The monk.... has none of that unless you take the Open Hand style. Its AC is not particularly great, but it also has no healing recovery. This means that a healing in a group with a monk is going to get tapped more than if they had a fighter.... monks are healing sponges.

So increasing the Monk HD to d10 does give it a little more toughness, and a little bit more recovery on a short rest...but they are still damage sponges in comparison to other front liners.


The two abilities I've been trying in my own homebrew lately:

1) Patient Defense: (remove bonus action) Spend 1 ki as a reaction to an attack or dex saving throw.
2) Meditation: A monk uses an action and begins concentrating, like on a spell. After 1 minute of concentrating, they regain hitpoints equal to their martial arts die + proficiency bonus. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to the monk's proficiency bonus.

The first gives the monk a solid AC when they need it (without spending KI just for the risk), and doesn't interfere with their offense. Meditation gives them more recovery so they aren't as reliant on secondary sources, but not in a way that clashes with the fighter or paladin, the healing is good but slow.

Don't forget that monks have Quickened Healing now.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Rogues don't have to get expertise in thieves tools,

Huh, I always thought it was thieve's tool + one other at level 1. Today I learned something

 

[Garthanos]

Honestly I think you could make a solid case for the Monk as a Rogue subclass.

Frankly Rogue's already have tons of the monk's core payload..... super fast with cunning action, able to deal extra damage through "weak spots", can become expert grapplers (expertise in athletics), able to soak damage through technique (uncanny dodge). At high levels blindsense and evasion.... all the meat is there.

If you had a rogue subclass that granted the unarmed damage and AC without armor, gave them some of the cool mobility stuff like walk on water, and maybe threw in a stunning strike on a sneak attack X times per day.... by gum I think you would have a pretty solid looking monk.

In 4e I noticed that too... you could even just make most of it accessible via a feat call it Martial Artist

 

[Garthanos]

Don't forget that monks have Quickened Healing now.

Isnt that pretty heavy ki cost?