D&D General The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods

[Helldritch]

You have to read a lot in to get from "consider the deity's suggested domains when selecting your character's domain" to "pick one of the suggested domain that will most suit your character."

Nope. You have to consider the paragraph in both in entirety and in it context. You can not take one sentence out of the text and say that you can ignore the rest because you took that sentence out of context.

A more natural reading is this sentence is saying consider the suggestions when picking from all the options open to you.

Yes. Then choose your god according to your choice. The domains gives you examples of which god you can choose for each domain.

You can normally consider a range of suggested options and pick a different one after considering them.

You can always change your mind within the parameters. Where are you getting at?
You want war but you also wanted to pick Eldath... does not work. So what will it be? Eldath or Ares? Will you change your domain and in so doing choose Ares? That is all that is implied there.

Other sections of the PH imply the list of domains available to a cleric is narrowly defined by a setting or a DM, but this sentence in the PH implies a cleric can choose a different domain than the suggested ones for their god.

Not from what I read. Unless you homebrew. Then anything goes.

Consider the options open to you when picking the options open to you is a particularly useless piece of advice.

Well... An advice to be careful about what you are about to choose is always good. Especialy when there is no turning back. Even more so with rookies doing their characters.

Consider our suggested pre-done curated list of domains that are tied thematically to related aspects of specific gods when picking from among the clerical god powers is reasonable advice.

No arguement from me on that one.

 

[Helldritch]

I consider 0e-3.5 +5e Greyhawk Vecna one continuity, I consider the 4e and 5e Dawn War Vecna a separate continuity, and the Exandria Vecna a third.

They are almost different gods too. Same name, but a different god. Mixing editions is not really a good thing to do as the writters seems to be hellbent on changing everything to suit their own personal campaigns... Consistency is not from edition to edition. Unfortunately. (and even then, even within one edition there are inconsistencies...)

 

[Chaosmancer]

No. That's not what I said or implied.

They would be the ones with the secrets to find out by Vecna's knowledge clerics.

So, why is it unreasonable to have a Nature Domain cleric of Vecna who has specialized in the secrets of Nature?

 

[Chaosmancer]

You have that backwards. Twilight is part of Helm's portfolio, because watchers need to be able to see in the dark, not because Twilight has anything to do in and of itself with vigilance.

So... a God of Vigiliance... has the Domain of Twilight... because Twilight Domain allows them to do their jobs better...

How is this any different than what I said?

Odd that it doesn't include races that can already see in the dark and therefore don't need the twilight domain.

Helm is worshiped by races that can see in the dark. So is Boldrei. Also, how many of those races that can see in the dark have a 300 ft darkvision and advantage on Initiative?

So, I have to reject your "this domain doesn't apply because the only point of the domain is to see in the dark" non-argument.

When the PHB was written, you had to choose from the suggested domains in it. Once new domains come out, the DM, per the DMG, can add new domains if he chooses. Those are both RAW. What is not RAW is the player being able to add new domains to the suggested list.

So, why did Tasha's bother to add more domains to some but not others? Also, why can't the player pick their own domain? They get to pick the god. They get to pick if they are a member of a cultish sect of that god. They can choose no god and get any domain they want. You are drawing a line that doesn't really exist.

 

[Maxperson]

So, why is it unreasonable to have a Nature Domain cleric of Vecna who has specialized in the secrets of Nature?

Because it's not one of his domains. Vecna is not a nature god. He's a god of secrets(knowledge).

 

[Chaosmancer]

The more you argue, the more I am convinced that you do not read but you skim. Everything you wrote is disproved by Maxperson in this

The bolded part has been proven times and times again.

So, because the DM can choose to add new domains, the book added new domains for the DM that they didn't get to pick, but they didn't do it for all the gods?

Because, sure, a DM could say "I'm sorry, you can't be a Light Domain Cleric of Apollo, because I decided that isn't a thing" and just overwrite it, but it seems like they added gods to the "expected" list, for a reason, and there is no reason that the player can't take those suggestions and run with them. Boldrie is the Goddess of Community. She gets the Twilight domain. Why shouldn't Erathis get the Twilight Domain? Not a "The DM gets to decide" give me a reason that a DM is going to say that a similar being won't give similar domains.


You guys keep defaulting to "but the DM can tell you no" but the DM can tell you no on anything. They can say that Apollo the god of light and healing is actually a bloodthirsty god of war. But if they are working in a Greek World and the player doesn't like Apollo but wants to be a cleric of light worshipping Hestia... is there a reason they can't? Why wouldn't that be allowed? Why can't we assume that the Goddess who tended the flame and was a beacon of light leading people home wouldn't grant people powers over fire and light?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Because it's not one of his domains. Vecna is not a nature god. He's a god of secrets(knowledge).

So you can't be a priest of Vecna who specializes in mastering the secrets of nature?

 

[Maxperson]

So... a God of Vigiliance... has the Domain of Twilight... because Twilight Domain allows them to do their jobs better...

How is this any different than what I said?

Because you said that vigilance was part of twilight. It's not. Twilight in this one instance was a part of vigilance.

Helm is worshiped by races that can see in the dark. So is Boldrei. Also, how many of those races that can see in the dark have a 300 ft darkvision and advantage on Initiative?

Helm is a human god. He may have some non-human worshippers, but those are exceptions.

So, I have to reject your "this domain doesn't apply because the only point of the domain is to see in the dark" non-argument.

Your rejection is irrelevant. It won't change that the human god Helm has twilight so that his human clerics can do their jobs better.

So, why did Tasha's bother to add more domains to some but not others?

Ask Crawford.

Also, why can't the player pick their own domain?

RAW doesn't let them pick beyond those suggested by the PHB. The DM can use the DMG to add others to the suggested list.

They get to pick the god.

Yep.

They get to pick if they are a member of a cultish sect of that god.

Sure.

They can choose no god and get any domain they want.

Where is that stated? The PHB cleric section requires a god.

You are drawing a line that doesn't really exist.

Nope! We've quoted it to you. Repeatedly. You don't get to declare that it doesn't exist just because you don't like it.

 

[Voadam]

The Appendix B domains associated with each god in the various D&D pantheons are explicitly only suggestions.

The PH and DMG overall read to me as saying individual gods have defined associated domains but that there are not official domains for any specific gods, just suggestions for the defined domains that a god has and therefore this is a campaign specific decision for each campaign, including one using a defined D&D pantheons from Appendix B.

So one DM using Greyhawk Vecna and saying he has the Trickery domain in their 5e Greyhawk setting campaign is as in compliance with official D&D rules as one saying he does not have the Trckery domain in their separate 5e Greyhawk campaign.

Similar to numerous aspects of 5e grid combat, 5e leaves it up to the DM.

PH page 58 "Each domain is detailed at the end of the class description, and each one provides examples of gods associated with it."

PH Page 59 "Each domain's description gives examples of deities who have influence over that domain."

"Examples" seems like it means a selected set of illustrative iconic examples and not an exclusive list.

Page 60 under the life domain "Almost any non-evil deity can claim influence over this domain, particularly agricultural deities (such as Chauntea, Arawai, and Demeter), sun gods (such as Lathander, Pelor, and Re-Horakhty), gods of healing or endurance (such as IImater, Mishakal, Apollo, and Diancecht), and gods of home and community (such as Hestia, Hathor, and Boldrei)."

Page 62 "Gods of trickery-such as"

PH page 293 "Many deities in this section suggest the Life domain, particularly if they are closely associated with healing, protection, childbirth, nurturing, or fertility. As described in the chapter 3, though, the Life domain is incredibly broad, and a cleric of any non-evil deity can choose it.
A number of other deities, mostly evil ones, suggest the Death domain, which is detailed in the Dungeon Master's Guide. Most clerics who choose this domain are evil NPCs, but if you want to worship a god of death, consult your Dungeon Master."

 

[Maxperson]

So you can't be a priest of Vecna who specializes in mastering the secrets of nature?

Sure you can. That's what the knowledge domain is for. Learning the secrets.