Is there demand for a “tactical” RPG akin to 4e?

[Lionblade]

Curious about people’s thoughts on this. I always liked the tactical aspects of D&D 4e, though didn’t play much of it myself. I think in a lot of ways, 4e suffered due to marketing and the fact that it was so different from D&D 3.5e, yet had the same name.

I’m sure there were many other issues that 4e had which turned away gamers, but I am curious now if there is demand for another game, which takes the best of 4e, and is designed and marketed as a “tactical” RPG. That is to say, an RPG with emphasis on grid-based combat, with depth for character creation, “powers” chosen at different levels (unique to the classes), and of course, a functional “social”/RP mechanics, with related skills, etc.

 

[AOieiosle]

Newest edition of Twilight 2k has incredibly detailed combat. Savage World has miniature rules baked into it's DNA and is basically a RPG/skirmish miniatures game. Fragged Empire was created to feel like a FPS.

The only grid-based combat game with "powers" chosen at different levels is 4e. So if you're asking if people want more 4e, I think the real answer is "do you want to bring a new game to the market that's a retro-clone of 4e?"

 

[Lionblade]

Interesting! I hadn’t realized Savage Worlds had that in mind. I had always heard it was more geared towards theater of the mind.

I’m thinking not so much a retro clone as just a brand new game in a similar vein as 4e. I know WoTC was incredibly closed off when it came to licensing for 4e, so a “clone” would be dangerous ground. But something “adjacent” is more what I am thinking of.

Doing some searching and I can’t find anything quite like what I have in mind. So, I’m wondering, would that even be a game people would want to play?

 

[payn]

PF2 is very tactical, not necessary identical to 4Es tactics, so Id say there is demand.

 

[Lionblade]

PF2 is very tactical, not necessary identical to 4Es tactics, so Id say there is demand.

I’ve heard this as well— I might eventually checkout PF2 as well.

 

[aco175]

I enjoyed 4e and would like to see 6e go a bit that way, but would not likely buy a game that is similar when I could just play that or more likely just play the current D&D.

 

[Retreater]

Why not play 4E?

 

[Lionblade]

Why not play 4E?

Namely, ongoing support. Partly, bloat. 4e has a problem I see in that there a lot of books required to really get back into it. On the other hand, it has been all but dropped by WoTC. So there will never be any new content for it, no one is making tools for it, VTT support for it is hard to come by, etc. PDFs are available on drivethru, but trying to get physical books requires EBay.

The lack of support makes it also hard to convince people to try and play it rather than just keeping up with the latest and greatest edition.

It almost seems better, at least to me, if there was an entirely new game with ongoing support and able to retain a fan base.

 

[GMMichael]

PF2 is very tactical, not necessary identical to 4Es tactics, so Id say there is demand.

Pathfinder 2nd even has the assortment of arcane icons like 4e (D&D, I assume?).

Not sure why games need ongoing support, as long as the community is allowed to publish adventures...

But here's some demand, to further the cause:

 

[Retreater]

Namely, ongoing support. Partly, bloat. 4e has a problem I see in that there a lot of books required to really get back into it. On the other hand, it has been all but dropped by WoTC. So there will never be any new content for it, no one is making tools for it, VTT support for it is hard to come by, etc. PDFs are available on drivethru, but trying to get physical books requires EBay.

The lack of support makes it also hard to convince people to try and play it rather than just keeping up with the latest and greatest edition.

It almost seems better, at least to me, if there was an entirely new game with ongoing support and able to retain a fan base.

I understand. I'm a fan of 4e, so I get it. And I've also tried to run a campaign somewhat recently.
I'd argue that an OOP edition of the world's biggest RPG still has greater market reach than an indie RPG.
I introduced my wife and several friends to 4E after they came in with 5E. They liked going back to see the history of the game, just like some players like going back to OSR titles.
For some players, convincing them to play anything other than 5E will be a challenge. But it can be a richly rewarding experience, even if you don't stick with the system.
To address bloat, try limiting your players to only Essentials (or only PHB1 or whatever). You don't have to use the entire library.
I've played 4e on Fantasy Grounds, and it worked fine. I'm guessing you could run it on any VTT with limited automation.
But the ship has sailed on 4e. I don't think we'll ever see a game like it again, especially not on the scale of a major RPG.
PF2 is not close to the tactical fun and streamlined gameplay experience of 4E. Level Up seems to have not gone far enough from 5E for my tastes.