D&D General How do you like your ASIs?

[Maxperson]

Errr...excuse me?

What do you mean, 5e has two levels of zero already?

The designers split level 1 up into 3 levels. You don't really hit level 1 until 3rd level when you get all of your level 1 abilities and your subclass(for most classes).

 

[Maxperson]

That is no compromise. That is even more power creep, or power leap. You want +2 fixed, and +2 floating? Fine, then the 27 point array becomes 25, or 24, and the Standard Array becomes 14, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.

In 5e it doesn't result in much more power at all. I have PCs in my game with 16 as their high, and one with 22 as his high. The 22 isn't an issue for me at all and they all do very well. The perceived increase in power is actually pretty irrelevant.

There is only one reason a player wants +4 to their overall stats.

False unichotomy!!

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

In 5e it doesn't result in much more power at all. I have PCs in my game with 16 as their high, and one with 22 as his high. The 22 isn't an issue for me at all and they all do very well. The perceived increase in power is actually pretty irreleva

False unichotomy!!

Err...what levels are your chars at?

 

[Bill Zebub]

The entire game is based on choices of which itch to scratch. I want to fly, have darkvision, cast divine and arcane spells, swing a sword, wear armor, and have the feat mobile - at first level.

You can't do that?

Why not? That's how I want to roleplay and powergame!

And I want a pony.

But I do think you are still missing a point here, judging by your sarcasm. This isn’t about wanting more and more powerful characters. I think everybody here agrees that games are about constraints and trade-offs. It’s just that this particular choice…race vs +1 mod…is a poorly designed one.

To grossly exaggerate the problem for illustrative purposes, imagine that somewhere in the chargen process you could choose between a weapon or a custom eye color, and those who choose eye color start the game with no weapon.

One group says, “That’s not even a choice. I will take the weapon every time. Which is a bummer because I’d really like my character to have grey eyes.”

The other group says, “Powergamer! Why don’t you try roleplaying!?!? Not everybody in a medieval society would own a weapon! Maybe try a little realism? You special snowflakes are ruining the game!”

To which the first group replies, “wtf…?”

The change seemed to many to be a move, not based on mechanical logic or feel, but on pressure. That might be why it bothers so many people.

That’s because they conclude without proof that the only reason behind the change is that WotC caved to pressure from a minority of vocal activists.

I believe, on the other hand, that they simply weighed tradition against good design philosophy and made a sensible decision.

 

[Maxperson]

Err...what levels are your chars at?

They are at 8th. One rolled lucky and raised his stat twice from 18 to 22. I have a house rule that raises the stat cap(since stats matter so little) from 20 to 20+racial bonus so that the strongest halfling will never equal the strongest goliath.

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

They are at 8th. One rolled lucky and raised his stat twice from 18 to 22. I have a house rule that raises the stat cap(since stats matter so little) from 20 to 20+racial bonus so that the strongest halfling will never equal the strongest goliath.

I don't know what to say. I would have walked away from a table where some player because of a lucky roll gets such a massive boon. Because if stats did not matter so much, this thread, and all the ones like it, would not be so long nor the battle lines so entrenched.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I don't know what to say. I would have walked away from a table where some player because of a lucky roll gets such a massive boon. Because if stats did not matter so much, this thread, and all the ones like it, would not be so long nor the battle lines so entrenched.

So on the one hand you’re arguing that other people shouldn’t care if their character only has a +2 bonus, and on the other hand you’ll ragequit if that person has +4.

Do stat differences matter or not? Make up your mind.

 

[Scott Christian]

And I want a pony.

But I do think you are still missing a point here, judging by your sarcasm. This isn’t about wanting more and more powerful characters. I think everybody here agrees that games are about constraints and trade-offs. It’s just that this particular choice…race vs +1 mod…is a poorly designed one.

To grossly exaggerate the problem for illustrative purposes, imagine that somewhere in the chargen process you could choose between a weapon or a custom eye color, and those who choose eye color start the game with no weapon.

I was being hyperbolic. But, I was also responding to this statement:

Again, it's not giving powergamers more power, it's giving people who have both powergaming and roleplaying tendencies the ability to satisfy both without conflict, instead of having to choose which itch to scratch.

This directly states that you (or the player you are referencing) want both. So in my opinion, the use of an absurd example is appropriate. It points out the need to have something that wasn't original part of the 5e design.

But, as I have stated before: IN the D&D world, it doesn't matter. +2 or +3. There are dozens of races, a massive amount of classes, so many different settings, and all created by a blending of different mythos. It's all good. There is nothing a floating ASI could harm. But, I do feel bad for people who have their immersion ruined by a change (as stated before), that many deem for no good reason. This is especially true if we believe the game is based on trade-offs.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't know what to say. I would have walked away from a table where some player because of a lucky roll gets such a massive boon. Because if stats did not matter so much, this thread, and all the ones like it, would not be so long nor the battle lines so entrenched.

And I would have let you go. We're all here to have fun and if your narrow range of vision(incorrect with regard to stat power) caused you to not have fun in my game, I wouldn't have wanted you to stay. My players have fun. The high stat isn't very relevant as it doesn't do a whole heck of a lot in encounters, so they remain challenged.

5e is a very robust game. You can do very well with a 14 in your main stat and having a 22 doesn't cause any sort of crazy power levels.

 

[clearstream]

And yet not. Are they stronger? Yes. Strength score is also a measure of strength, though, and it's not possible to lift twice as much without also being stronger in the strength score, since that measures lifting. If they don't have a racial bonus to strength, the race is in fact also not stronger(strength score). This is nonsensical. You end up with what I said. It's simultaneously stronger and not stronger at the same time.

It feels like this is an argument from weaknesses in the vernacular. The 'strength' ability score is not all there is to being physically powerful, as demonstrated by the scaling carrying capacity of larger creatures, and racial traits like Powerful Build.

In fact, assuming the size is the same, since the strength score is what determines how much you can lift, giving a race the ability to lift double without also doubling the strength score creates a disconnect.

Races have all kinds of traits. Wisdom is the ability score associated with perception, and yet races without a wisdom bonus can have darkvision, which is a form of perception. Instead of thinking of being physically powerful only in terms of having a bigger number on the first ability score, it can be defined in multiple ways.