D&D General How do you like your ASIs?

[Bill Zebub]

I was being hyperbolic. But, I was also responding to this statement:

This directly states that you (or the player you are referencing) want both. So in my opinion, the use of an absurd example is appropriate. It points out the need to have something that wasn't original part of the 5e design.

I will try again: it’s not about wanting all the mechanical/power choices, it’s about wanting mechanical choices (stats) and narrative choices (race) to be independent.

But, as I have stated before: IN the D&D world, it doesn't matter. +2 or +3. There are dozens of races, a massive amount of classes, so many different settings, and all created by a blending of different mythos. It's all good. There is nothing a floating ASI could harm. But, I do feel bad for people who have their immersion ruined by a change (as stated before), that many deem for no good reason. This is especially true if we believe the game is based on trade-offs.

I also feel bad for them, but I think it’s their choice to be bothered. As somebody pointed out in the thread on realism (in the TTRPG General forum), “the term dissociative mechanics refers to rules I don’t personally like”.

 

[Maxperson]

It feels like this is an argument from weaknesses in the vernacular. The 'strength' ability score is not all there is to being physically powerful, as demonstrated by the scaling carrying capacity of larger creatures, and racial traits like Powerful Build.

I get that. It's not all there is, but nor are traits like Powerful Build. You need both in order for a race to be stronger than other races, otherwise you create a disconnect where a race is stronger than other races(Powerful Build), yet also not stronger than other races(no bonus to strength score). That's a nonsensical situation. Any race with Powerful Build will also have a bonus to the strength score, and probably much more than +2.

Races have all kinds of traits. Wisdom is the ability score associated with perception, and yet races without a wisdom bonus can have darkvision, which is a form of perception. Instead of thinking of being physically powerful only in terms of having a bigger number on the first ability score, it can be defined in multiple ways.

Darkvision is not a form of the perception skill. Darkvision can make perception possible through the skill, but itself it is not perception. You can see something(have it be right where you are looking) and not perceive it.

 

[Scott Christian]

I will try again: it’s not about wanting all the mechanical/power choices, it’s about wanting mechanical choices (stats) and narrative choices (race) to be independent.

So, honest question: What about the player that wants to combine different mechanical choices with different narrative choices that are not allowed by the game - because there is supposed to be a trade-off?

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

So on the one hand you’re arguing that other people shouldn’t care if their character only has a +2 bonus, and on the other hand you’ll ragequit if that person has +4.

Do stat differences matter or not? Make up your mind.

Huh???

I am saying that stats matter very much, Players love when they get their ASI's. Powergamers NEED high stats. I am also saying that because they matter so much chars have to have hard limitations based on species specific traits. From an RP perspective, it is just as easy to RP a Fighter with a Str of 16 at 1st level as it is to RP one with a Str of 18 at level 4. But I keep hearing the canard "I need the ability to put my bonuses anywhere I like because it feeds into my backstory, and makes my char unique."

I will believe that when I see a Half-Orc Wizard with a starting Str of 17 and a starting Int of 13. To date, I never have been in a game where that happens.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Then start your campaign at a higher level. Removing the 1st tier would just ruin the fun for the rest of us.

I do.?.

Where exactly did you get the idea I'm asking them to do away with the 1st tier of play?

 

[Maxperson]

I am saying that stats matter very much, Players love when they get their ASI's. Powergamers NEED high stats.

As do non-powergamers with certain character concepts.

I will believe that when I see a Half-Orc Wizard with a starting Str of 17 and a starting Int of 13. To date, I never have been in a game where that happens.

I've seen it, but not since 2e. I have as recently as 3e(which I played until 2019) seen instances of a human wizard with an 18 strength and a 14-15 int, and other incongruous rolls. In 5e I've seen several characters with lower prime scores than the highest stat, though not as disparate as 17 and 13.

 

[Scribe]

Given 2, what is the hypothesis for 1?

Implied is 3. People have some belief that places value on the bump even though according to the game math it is not required to be effective.

If powergaming is connected with aiming to be effective according to the game math, we seem to have ruled out powergaming as the motive for 1.

If we accept that the math doesnt require it, and nobody had even tried to demonstrate that it does which I've seen, then yes, its a belief, or more likely, a simple desire.

Power gaming would not simply be 'effective'. Getting into conversations around defining subjective terms leads to long threads so I'll ask you.

What is 'power gaming'?

 

[Maxperson]

Removing the 1st tier would just ruin the fun for the rest of us.

The rest of who? 44.5% of those who voted here start higher than 1st tier.

D&D 5E - What level do you like to start at?

Well the latest season of Critical Role just started started today and they started at And though I know this question gets asked on the regular, with the impending "5.5e", I feel it's a good time to ask again: What level you you like to start at? Or perhaps more accurately, which level do...

www.enworld.org

 

[JiffyPopTart]

As do non-powergamers with certain character concepts.

I've seen it, but not since 2e. I have as recently as 3e(which I played until 2019) seen instances of a human wizard with an 18 strength and a 14-15 int, and other incongruous rolls. In 5e I've seen several characters with lower prime scores than the highest stat, though not as disparate as 17 and 13.

My 5e hill dwarf cleric had CON20 STR14 WIS13

 

[Scribe]

Ultimately I would really want to see a discussion about how the game should be structured so that maxing your class' main stat wasn't always the obvious no-brainer chose. Even aside the species issue I find such homogeneity unfortunate.

Introduce way more situations where rolling the attack dice, isnt the most pressing consideration, and making sure that those other situations require higher results, while having much higher cost for failure.

You have to force people to diversify, gamers will always optimize the fun out of things.