D&D 5E Don't play "stupid" characters. It is ableist.

[Argyle King]

What is Jack Chic’s view of D&D, and in what way does what I’m saying sound like it?

A lot of his argument was that the game (D&D) was training kids to be morally bad people in real life.

 

[Charlaquin]

A lot of his argument was that the game (D&D) was training kids to be morally bad people in real life.

My argument has nothing to do with morality, so this seems like false equivalence to me.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Hiya!

They are all the same... not attributing to real people in reality. I think that's where we aren't seeing eye to eye.

In ALL of those cases, I'm not actually doing anything to anyone...because they are all fictional characters.

Here's exactly where the 'they're fictional' argument breaks down: How would you feel about a player coming to your table playing a character who is a purposeful real world racial stereotype?

Is that okay because it's 'fictional' too? Please explain why or why not.

If it's not okay, how does that differ from mocking neurodivergent people?

 

[Argyle King]

My argument has nothing to do with morality, so this seems like false equivalence to me.

And to me, it seems otherwise.

 

[Charlaquin]

And to me, it seems otherwise.

Would you please explain how so that I may addressed your concern directly?

 

[Argyle King]

Would you please explain how so that I may addressed your concern directly?

If I understand what you said correctly, part of your position is that being able to act out doing something in-game correlates to real-life behavior.

Have I understood that correctly?

 

[Benjamin Olson]

A lot of his argument was that the game (D&D) was training kids to be morally bad people in real life.

Here comes the new moral panic, same as the old moral panic.

But I don't think you can really take a "you are Jack Chick with a different moral fixation" argument very far with anyone here. They are, after all, presumably all on board with the proposition that we should play TTRPGs, something which Chick was distinctly not on board with.

 

[Umbran]

If I understand what you said correctly, part of your position is that being able to act out doing something in-game correlates to real-life behavior.

Have I understood that correctly?

It seems to me that it isn't about "acting out doing something in game". The game isn't the issue - it is the behavior in a social group that accepts and reinforces it.

It is about being comfortable mocking people for what they are. Playing D&D, or going bowling and telling slur-laden jokes with your buddies is much the same in that regard. The material bit is having a protective social unit that allows you to engage in such discriminatory nonsense, and feel like it is socially acceptable to do so.

 

[Argyle King]

It seems to me that it isn't about "acting out doing something in game".

It is about being comfortable mocking people for what they are. The game is not the material bit. Playing D&D, or going bowling and telling slur-laden jokes with your buddies is much the same in that regard. The material bit is having a protective social unit that allows you to engage in such discriminatory nonsense, and feel like it is socially acceptable to do so.

I think that's a fair assessment.

If slurs and such are involved, I think that's taking more steps.

Hypothetically, would bowling while discussing the XP values of killing be viewed by you as better or worse?

 

[Charlaquin]

If I understand what you said correctly, part of your position is that being able to act out doing something in-game correlates to real-life behavior.

Have I understood that correctly?

You have not.

Let me try explaining it a different way. Imagine, for a moment, that you’re someone who isn’t very bright. Like, not severely so, but you struggle with a certain complex tasks that your peers seem to be able to grasp with ease. Imagine that, for all your life, you’ve been mocked for this. In school, other kids called you names and did cartoonish impressions of you. Now, imagine you hear about this game called D&D. It sounds fun. You give it a try. While playing this game, one of the other players at the table plays a character with an 8 intelligence (slightly below average). They portray this character as practically incapable of counting past 10. They talk in a voice that sounds a lot like the voices your bullies used to use when doing mocking impressions of you. Everyone else at the table laughs at his antics. How do you think this would make you feel? Do you think you would want to keep playing this game?

Now imagine instead that you’re someone who just straight-up doesn’t like people with mental disabilities. You know that isn’t a very popular opinion, so you mostly keep it to yourself. But behind closed doors, you just don’t like them. Now imagine you also play D&D. And one of your friends who plays it with you has a character with 8 intelligence, and plays him like I described in the previous paragraph. How would that make you feel? Would you want to keep playing D&D? Would you perhaps be more willing to risk letting a joke at the expense of the mentally disabled slip from time to time with that group?

Now think about what kind of environment such portrayals might foster in the long-term.