D&D 5E Alphastream - Why No RPG Company Truly Competes with Wizards of the Coast

[Mannahnin]

As I recall during the last year or so of 4E's publication history, when they had an unusually low number of books released, they slipped into 2nd behind Pathfinder.

I thought this too, but the truth is they slipped into second while they were still producing books. Well before they stopped production.

I think it’s also a bit of denial. It’s more like Pathfinder claimed the number one spot vs just getting it by default.

I didn't write after they had stopped production, I wrote that it happened after they had an unusually low number of releases.

Book releases (core, campaign settings, and rules supplements ), during 4E's lifecycle were roughly...
2008: 10 (+3 if you count the deluxe editions of the 3 core books)
2009: 11
2010: 13
2011: 5
2012: 2
2013: 0

Digging back a bit, per ICv2 numbers, Q3 2010 is when Pathfinder and D&D tied for the first time.

D&D took the lead again for two quarters after that, then in Q2 and Q3 2011 Pathfinder actually took the lead and retained it. The same year D&D only had 5 big releases (Neverwinter Campaign Setting, Heroes of the Feywild, Heroes of the Shadowfell, Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium, and Book of Vile Darkness, only two of which I personally bought, for a piece of anecdotal data).

Top 5 RPGs--Q3 2010

From 'ICv2's Internal Correspondence' #73

icv2.com

Top 5 Sales - Q3 2011 Analysis

http://thestarkingtonpost.com/ckfinder/userfiles/images/ICv2.jpgTop 5 RPGs – Third Quarter 2011 In an ongoing Duel of the Fates, the two major Fantasy RPG lines have vied for the top position on the sales charts for some time now. The latest quarter for which results are available, 3rd...

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[Helldritch]

That's not true at all. Fate, Cortex, GURPS, WOIN, Cypher, Genisys (sp?), Savage Worlds -- none of those are related to D&D, nor are they tied to a specific setting. But none of them are nearly as successful as D&D. It's not the genericness that's the magic sauce.

Point given. But are these RPGs accessible enough to be the first to learn? The learning curve is relatively high in GURPS, I have not played the others. I am sure that they have their fan base but they stay fringed for a reason.

Yes genericness isn't the only point. The rich lore, the amount of reusable material, the easiness of the rules, the art and so on do provide a good amount of help in explaining the success of D&D now. But right at the beginning when D&D was starting others tried to dislodge it and failed. And that is the fact that D&D was the most generic system out there. All the others tried to either complexify the rules or were stuck in a very specific setting. The fad around them faced leaving only D&D as the leader in RPG. At some point, D&D expanded into many settings especially with second edition with Planescape, Ravenloft, Darksun and so on. Hey, even the video game Diablo became a setting! If that is not generic, nothing is.

 

[Morrus]

Point given. But are these RPGs accessible enough to be the first to learn? The learning curve is relatively high in GURPS, I have not played the others. I am sure that they have their fan base but they stay fringed for a reason.

GURPS is more complex than D&D. The others are all lighter than D&D. Cypher, particularly so. So ease use isn't the magic sauce, either. These games are all more generic than D&D, and with the exception of GURPS, easier to learn.

 

[Helldritch]

Then why are they so fringed that I barely heard of them. If not for the forums, I would not even know of their existence. Is it their base setting?

 

[darjr]

Then why are they so fringed that I barely heard of them. If not for the forums, I would not even know of their existence. Is it their base setting?

FATE, nor FUDGE, nor GURPS, nor BRP have base settings.

All of these games have had shelf space in several retail stores, GURPS has even been in the big book stores like Barnes and Noble.

I dunno why you haven’t heard of them. I’d think you’d know better than any of us.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Point given. But are these RPGs accessible enough to be the first to learn? The learning curve is relatively high in GURPS, I have not played the others. I am sure that they have their fan base but they stay fringed for a reason.

Well, bluntly, a big part of that reason is D&D is already established and easy to find both players and GMs for. That would give it an enormous advantage beyond any other traits of the game at all.

Yes genericness isn't the only point. The rich lore, the amount of reusable material, the easiness of the rules, the art and so on do provide a good amount of help in explaining the success of D&D now. But right at the beginning when D&D was starting others tried to dislodge it and failed. And that is the fact that D&D was the most generic system out there. All the others tried to either complexify the rules or were stuck in a very specific setting. The fad around them faced leaving only D&D as the leader in RPG. At some point, D&D expanded into many settings especially with second edition with Planescape, Ravenloft, Darksun and so on. Hey, even the video game Diablo became a setting! If that is not generic, nothing is.

Even early on they had a pretty massive out-the-gate advantage. It might have been possible to dislodge them then, but even then it'd have been an uphill fight.

 

[Thomas Shey]

FATE, nor FUDGE, nor GURPS, nor BRP have base settings.

You could argue BRP does; at least RQ is the most well known of all BRP related games.

 

[darjr]

You could argue BRP does; at least RQ is the most well known of all BRP related games.

Except it doesn’t. The first BRP was a three page pamphlet without any setting. There wasn’t room.

BRP was built from their house rules and almost from the very beginning was fitted to be morphed to all sorts of games.

In fact it’s very age as one of the great grand old ones might make it as one of the first generic rule sets , with that exact intent.

Though I will grant it’s initial reason for being was as an alternate to D&D. If I remember right RQ came after. They were looking for a setting to publish the rules with and the board game was where they started.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Except it doesn’t. The first BRP was a three page pamphlet without any setting. There wasn’t room.

BRP was their built from their house rules and almost from the very beginning was fitted to be morphed to all sorts of games.

In fact it’s very age as one of the great grand old ones might make it as one of the first generic games, with that exact intent.

Uhm, are you sure you aren't confusing BRP with Steve's old Perrin Conventions? They have some familiar relationship, but they aren't the same, and the first BRP game was absolutely RQ. I was a friend of Steve Perrin's for many decades until his heartbreakingly untimely death earlier this year, so I think I know of what I speak.

 

[Morrus]

Then why are they so fringed that I barely heard of them.

Well that's the million dollar question, isn't it? But it's not because they fail to be (a) generic or (b) easy to learn.