simple. We want to sell to as many people as possible, we know some people prefer simple classes and others complex. We should make for each archtype a simple and complex option. We should balance them so no one is the 'right' choice.
D&D 5E Casters vs Martials: Part 1 - Magic, its most basic components
- Thread starter Stalker0
- Start date
also he is born under a special sign in special circumstances and has mmade MANY pact
Neonchameleon
Legend
Two obvious reasons.
- First there is the implicit problem that level reflects power level. If the fighters can't keep up then the devs have failed to make level fit for purpose and the design does not meet the specs.
- There are a significant number of people who want to play fighters that can actually hold their own at high level - and doing such will produce a product people want but don't currently have.
I can't think of two better reasons to make anything for D&D than making it work and pleasing a significant number of people.
actually... When the fictional character himself makes fun of the comparison in his own novels it's probably a safe bet that it's a bad comparison for this kind of discussion. The novels frequently joke "Harry you are a Wizard not a wizard"* (Others to Harry & Harry to himself at times). The joke tends to be a reference to either harry potter or literal d&d wizards. The magic system in dresden files novels & the Fate based dfrpg is different from d&d magic in ways that would make any d&d wizard drool with envy. Once you look at the hows & whys behind what Harry can do he very much doesn't map very well to d&d.*I don't remember which is caps & which italicized or if they are consistent
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
LOL, funny, I was going to pretty say the same thing. I've shown you numerous times how normal martials can have features that are super-heroic. You disagree. I also see no point in continuing the conversation.
Again, at least we agree on something.
Because they are demigods. Mundane =/= Demigod. If you think Mundane = Demigod, I can't imagine what a super hero must look like to you!
D&D settings are typically highly magically infused worlds with fantastical elements everywhere (unlike the basically mundane world with a splash of usually powerful but dangerous magic which is also a trope).
Yes, mythic hero type abilities are "magical" when viewed by real world standards. But they don't have to be "arcane, divine, primal D&D magical". They can be intrinsic to the character which I think is what people think about when they think about mythic martial abilities. You can define this many ways -- divine spark, ki, just the natural laws of the world allows training to reach much different levels of power, born under a red moon, etc. Is it just another form of "magic"? If you are totally reductionist, sure. But clearly there is a demand for this different type of martial which I like to call "mythic hero" which is a "physical" type person with instrinsic (not using typical D&D magic sources) power that rivals what typical D&D spells can do.
What hasn't popped up in this conversation much lately is that D&D is a team adventure game.
I have no problem with having the slightly earth reality bending but not mythical "action hero" being a choice of character. This is a fairly common situation -- hobbits with people of power, black widow with Thor and Dr. Strange, etc.
A mythic martial hero should be also be a choice of character, which is also a pretty common thing.
The real question is -- how do you have both of those in one game, along side mythical Wizards?
You could have the game transition by level. So martials don't get mythical stuff until 11+ levels. If you want to play stricly mundane you stop at level 10.
You could have the mundane martials gain really powerful plot point / story points at level 11+ instead of the mythical powers , so they can bend the plot in ways that make them more relevant. When it comes down it, this is how it works in fiction. Curcumstances bend themselves to spotlight and make the mundane important and relevant.
You could also just have the existing mundane martials sitting alongside mythical martials and mythical Wizards and the DM just adjusts the plot to keep the mundane martials cool. Similar to the above but with much less agency as a player. (not one I reccomend but there are a lot of people on this thread that seem to advocate for this method vs. baking something into the ruleset).
Asisreo
Patron Badass
"So, how are we going to implement that and be within our deadline? And to what extent do we market broadly? We can't keep working on this project forever.
How do you know that the audience we attract is worth the time and effort we put in for this 'balance?'"
"In what ways do fighters not 'hold their own'? Our playtesters have a pretty high satisfaction rating for the fighter as-is. The numbers on our spreadsheet say they're quite a competent class. Who exactly are these 'significant number of people' and will their exclusion affect our bottom line?"
I'm sorry are you paying me? if not bite me with deadlines.
edit and what year did this playtest start? 2014... they have had 7ish years
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
I cannot remember did Raistlin start out as a god? /sarcasm
Doesnt matter all his power may be covered by the D&D class he picked.. maybe not in story but feels like it in 5e (also I could be wrong and some is in an epic destiny too).
Maybe give characters Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies...
Epic Destinies/Paragon Paths are progressive (you know like levelling) same way I give Arthur his Excalibur in effect its starts out not much more than as badge of rulership not yet acknowledged and as he achieves concordance with his status as High king and Lancelot helps bring other leaders on board, the heirloom weapon gets more power as a reflection of him and an addition to his. (Similar but not identical with Elric and Stormbringer). And Herakles was a demigod who eventually became the god of strength (perhaps as he attunes and accepts his immortal bloodline and completes tasks?). I see each of them as a gradual process of empowerment which may start manifesting in bursts of what he can accomplish later, matter of factly.
Nope don't want my fighter to be the muggle bodyguard (who may or may not get magic items) of harry potter (heck police cop tough wizard defender) is arguably Harry's role.
Doesnt matter all his power may be covered by the D&D class he picked.. maybe not in story but feels like it in 5e (also I could be wrong and some is in an epic destiny too).
Maybe give characters Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies...
Epic Destinies/Paragon Paths are progressive (you know like levelling) same way I give Arthur his Excalibur in effect its starts out not much more than as badge of rulership not yet acknowledged and as he achieves concordance with his status as High king and Lancelot helps bring other leaders on board, the heirloom weapon gets more power as a reflection of him and an addition to his. (Similar but not identical with Elric and Stormbringer). And Herakles was a demigod who eventually became the god of strength (perhaps as he attunes and accepts his immortal bloodline and completes tasks?). I see each of them as a gradual process of empowerment which may start manifesting in bursts of what he can accomplish later, matter of factly.
Nope don't want my fighter to be the muggle bodyguard (who may or may not get magic items) of harry potter (heck police cop tough wizard defender) is arguably Harry's role.
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