D&D 5E Should All Subclasses Be Gained at 1st Level?

[DND_Reborn]

if i remember right (I might not be) the d20SW also alternated with feat and talent so every level you had a choice... (maybe that was SW saga?)

I don't remember talents in d20 SW, so that might be in saga....

 

[HammerMan]

I don't care either way. Because quite frankly, if I have an idea for a character it comes out of its narrative and story, and not its game mechanic. If I want to play a Drunken Master Monk... I can play that Drunken Master Monk at 1st level even if I don't get Drunken Master-specific game mechanics until 3rd level. And this is true across the board.

Because guess what? Here's a little secret... most game mechanics do not IN ANY WAY actually represent the narrative they are supposed to symbolize.

I agree with the basic idea is, but not the full intent. Yes I can reflavor any subclass as another concept...but at the end of the day there is still flavor text there.

I mean look at the Drunken Master. At 3rd level you get four mechanics:
1) Performance skill
2) Brewer's Supplies
3) Take Disengage action as part of another action
4) Gain 10 feet of movement

Dwarven bard... halfing gymnyst... I could do this 1 million times... but if you WANT to play a drunken master it isn't too hard... try this with the concept being "minor spell caster/thief" and wait 2 levels for your arcane trickster subclass. (Eldritch knight at least have the ability to swap a fighting style for cantrips)

Let's take another one. If we didn't already know, what would we guess these four mechanics represent for a Class and Sub-class when all the flavor is removed?

1) +1d8 damage on an attack if the target is below its hit point maximum
2) +4 AC against a creature that has hit you for one turn
3) use one action to attack each creature adjacent to you
4) use a reaction to halve the damage of an attack against you

again this could be any multi attacker... I mean a generic fighter with little flavor beyond "i am a soldier" could have all of this...

 

[Stormonu]

If multiclassing didn't exist, I'd say level 1. Level 2 or 3 is fine for subclasses.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Because guess what? Here's a little secret... most game mechanics do not IN ANY WAY actually represent the narrative they are supposed to symbolize.

Welcome to 5e where we killed most design space for 'simplicity'.

That doesn't preclude people making good subclasses though.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Welcome to 5e where we killed most design space for 'simplicity'.

Heh... you think this is 5E specific? Uh... nope! Not at all! ALL editions of the game had most of their mechanics be completely generic and only became what we think of them to be BECAUSE we layered fluff on top of them.

"What's that? When playing 3E I get +10d6 additional damage if I'm on the opposite side of a monster than my friend? By gods! That CAN ONLY MEAN that I've found a secret, sneaky location on the creature's body and stabbed it RIGHT THERE! THAT'S THE ONLY REASON WHY I DID SO MANY EXTRA d6s IN DAMAGE! IT HAD TO BE A "SNEAK ATTACK" from FLANKING!"

"But what if we say you are just really skilled and do that damage by just getting around the monster's guard? Couldn't you do that extra damage that way?"

"NO! NO WAY! SNEAK ATTACK! ONLY SNEAK ATTACK!!! HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THE MECHANIC COULD BE SOMETHING ELSE!!!"

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I personally let my players ''lock'' their subclasses at 1st level, gaining a small part of their 2nd/3rd level archetype.

 

[cbwjm]

I personally let my players ''lock'' their subclasses at 1st level, gaining a small part of their 2nd/3rd level archetype.

I've considered doing this as well. Wanting to play an eldritch knight and having to wait until 3rd level to get that feeling of a warrior that also uses magic is annoying but if you grant a couple of cantrips at 1st level then it can give a little bit of the magical warrior feeling straight away.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I've considered doing this as well. Wanting to play an eldritch knight and having to wait until 3rd level to get that feeling of a warrior that also uses magic is annoying but if you grant a couple of cantrips at 1st level then it can give a little bit of the magical warrior feeling straight away.

Also good for letting Blade-locks have Hex Warrior at first level so they don't need to wait two levels to be melee-types.

 

[TwoSix]

I never played much 3E, but played a lot of d20 SW and loved the prestige class concept in that, so anything along those lines I think would be good. It gives characters more paths to follow instead of feeling stuck in the same gear all the time.

Simpler base classes plus prestige class type options is definitely the way to go. Almost every subclass in the game is already 4-5 features, simply package them as 4-5 level prestige classes.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Simpler base classes plus prestige class type options is definitely the way to go. Almost every subclass in the game is already 4-5 features, simply package them as 4-5 level prestige classes.

My point was for both.

Generic classes (maybe levels 1-2) or just start with subclass.
Any time from level 7-12, add on prestige class options.

I wouldn't want to turn subclasses INTO prestige classes.