D&D General The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D

[Bill Zebub]

Reminds me of how people seem to be confused about the heroic status of Homelander from The Boys. Even though he clearly is an evil, twisted villain, he's a bad@$$ and dresses patriotically. So....they admire him? To the point that they like to draw favorable comparisons between him and their preferred political leader?

So $%#&ing weird.

 

[CleverNickName]

Reminds me of how people seem to be confused about the heroic status of Homelander from The Boys. Even though he clearly is an evil, twisted villain, he's a bad@$$ and dresses patriotically. So....they admire him? To the point that they like to draw favorable comparisons between him and their preferred political leader?

So $%#&ing weird.

It's not that weird. For some folks, power is the most important thing...the most desirable trait of a leader. Good or evil, wealthy or poor, wise or unwise, it doesn't matter. As long as the person is believed to be powerful, they will fall in line behind them.

 

[MGibster]

Reminds me of how people seem to be confused about the heroic status of Homelander from The Boys. Even though he clearly is an evil, twisted villain, he's a bad@$$ and dresses patriotically. So....they admire him? To the point that they like to draw favorable comparisons between him and their preferred political leader?

Look, there were people shipping Jessica Jones and Kilgrave. So, uh, yeah. Sometimes people have odd interpretations.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I don't get how anyone could read any of the lore and not walk away thinking the Imperium of Man's worst enemy is the Imperium of Man. The Space Marines, the poster boys of the game, were taken from their homes at a young age to fight, be indoctrinated, and surgically/genetically altered into being something other than human. They're former child soldiers who have been brainwashed. And as bad as the Space Marines are, some the the backstories of the Officio Assassinorum are even worse.

Because they then meet the 40K fans that lover the Imperium unironically.

It's like how Moore is really specific in making Rorschach the lord of all edgelord scumbags and you can go to any comics board online and find people talking about how he's the kewlest and all superheroes should be like him.

 

[Charlaquin]

This one so weird to me, because its really just people grossly misunderstanding the setting in question.

Again, fascists love being perceived as powerful so much, they’re not really fussed if they’re the villains, as long as they’re scary villains. The Imperium of Man are clearly the bad guys (I mean… Everyone in 40k is the bad guys, but the Imperium is no exception). But they project the image of strength that fascists are obsessed with (especially in their propaganda, which most fascists are so susceptible to that they tend to miss the irony).

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't get how anyone could read any of the lore and not walk away thinking the Imperium of Man's worst enemy is the Imperium of Man. The Space Marines, the poster boys of the game, were taken from their homes at a young age to fight, be indoctrinated, and surgically/genetically altered into being something other than human. They're former child soldiers who have been brainwashed. And as bad as the Space Marines are, some the the backstories of the Officio Assassinorum are even worse.

Are you kidding? Being a genetically-engineered child supersoldier is a fascist’s wildest dream! They eat that stuff up.

 

[Thunderfoot]

So i agree with your concepts, but I think we should be careful about 'altering history' for the sake of hurt feelings. Before you start talking let me explain. Unlike some folks that use this argument to prop up their favorite hate, I liken it to a bruise or a scar.
I.e. - Ignoring that a person is important to history because they were the bad guy is ... like saying, 'I broke my hand and had to have thumb amputated but because I don't believe my thumb is gone it never happened....' Better to learn that maybe this person was a POS and we shouldn't follow in their shoes.

That being said my issue is with the term race. D&D, to me, has always been a beacon of how to PROPERLY use that term. Human, elf, gnome.. et al. I think the issue of using the term 'sub-race' may needed some re-thinking. nervous eye look. But ancestry and lineage are left over from royal blood lines which were more offensive than skin color ( I am royalty because god wills.it...peasant)... And folk is Afro-centric and a gang term. (Yeah, I had the pleasure of living in a mostly black neighborhood as a white family after I left the military and it opened my eyes to how double standard the arguments are.) And a double standards, to me, is just as wrong and just as offensive.

Does that make me better than you? No. Neither does it make me a better judge of what's right and wrong. It means that anyone can make an argument for anything. Better to say, yep this is wrong, acknowledge it and say it was accepted and now isn't and move on as an anarchism (and if possible come up with a solution going forward but don't throw the baby out with the bath neither.)

There will never be a right answer. It will always cause debate, and maybe... that's what we should take away, debate is healthy, the hate, not so much. I love that our community, as a whole, tries to get to where we need to be, for me, that's far better than most communities. Are we there, by no means. Will we ever be, honestly, probably not. However, I still say we are better than most. So, how do we fix it?? Not sure I have the answer, but I'm willing to help us get there, even if it means poking the bruises to remind us that that pain was earned for a reason. And I'm willing to take the slings and arrows, if need be.
Baby and the bathwater...

 

[MGibster]

Are you kidding? Being a genetically-engineered child supersoldier is a fascist’s wildest dream! They eat that stuff up.

I don't actually think most people who unironically like the Imperium are fascists at heart.

 

[d24454_modern]

Indeed! If it wasn’t clear, I’m a big fan of reinterpreting and reclaiming cosmic horror from Lovecraft.

That feels like a bad idea since you might as well be reading something else.

 

[Scribe]

I don't actually think most people who unironically like the Imperium are fascists at heart.

I've collected far far more 40K then I reasonably should, and the ones I've never finished/played, are all Imperial. It truly is the 'Bad Guy' of the setting to me, and I simply cannot square away what it represents, from the game side lol.