D&D General The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D

[Charlaquin]

That wasn't the thrust of Lindsey's argument. She argued that the way Mel Brooks criticized the Nazis was in a manner that made them seem foolish or stupid. Nobody is going to watch The Producers and be able to walk away with any sort of positive impression of Nazis. Whereas in a movie like American History X, even though it's got an anti-Nazi message, the audience can still away thinking that Derek Vinyard was a badass. Another example she used was a Halloween episode of South Park where Cartman's ghost costume resembled a KKK outfit and when Chef saw it he beast a hasty retreat. The problem was that the Klan wasn't the butt of the joke there. Brooks' jokes about the Nazis worked, according to Ellis, because they made the Nazis look stupid, weak, and not at all badass or powerful.

That’s the thing about fascists. They’re so obsessed with the aesthetics of power that, even if you present them as the bad guys, they love it as long as they look like powerful bad guys. The only effective way to critique them is through mockery.

 

[Charlaquin]

When someone requests Every Breath You Take as their wedding song (true story ....), what does that say about the Police?

I don’t know, but Don’t Stand So Close to Me sure creeps me out when I consider that Sting was a teacher before he joined The Police.

 

[Malmuria]

All that said, I think that these issues are lessened when it comes to D&D. I am hard-pressed to think of a particular topic where people don't understand the purpose of the gaming materials. Maybe I'm missing something?

Warhammer 40K Tells Idiot Fascists Having a God Emperor Is Bad, Actually

“The Imperium of Man stands as a cautionary tale of what could happen should the very worst of Humanity’s lust for power and extreme, unyielding xenophobia set in."

www.vice.com

 

[Irlo]

What do you mean believe them? When someone tells me they're offended by something I absolutely believe them. But it doesn't necessarily follow that I share their offense and even when I do I might not agree on what the best course of action to take when dealing with the offending material is.

Good question! I'll clarify.

I'm not talking about offense.

What I am talking about:

• If someone affected tells me that the cover blurb on my copy of Oriental Adventures leans heavily into the exocitification of culture that's been damaging to people, I try to believe them, even if I'm really keen on my samauri and sohei character concepts and I like old kung-fu movies.
• If a woman in my D&D group (or outside of it) rolls her eyes and grimaces at seeing cheesecake art on an old Dragon magazine, I pay attention to that.
• If my neighbor's non-binary teenager wonders why all the relationships represented in the WotC hardbound adventure book I let them borrow are heterosexual, I try to listen to the point behind the question. And I believe that they see the exclusion that others might not see, and I believe that they are affected adversely by that exclusion.
• If a gamer in my group tells me that my depiction of fantasy slavery in my fantasy game strikes too close to reality and sucks the fun out of the game, I'm going to believe them.

I do NOT say:

• No, no. It's an homage to Eastern cultures! The writers don't have racist intent.
• But at least the half-naked woman is a strong role-model! Look, the male barbarian is wearing less than she is!
• I prefer to keep gender politics out of my fantasy game. No, no, representing ONLY heteronormative relationships is NON-political.
• It's just a game. I'm not trying to be offensive. You want to play or not?

I believe that they notice these things, that those things are in the work, and that it affects them. Does that help?

 

[MGibster]

I don’t know, but Don’t Stand So Close to Me sure creeps me out when I consider that Sting was a teacher before he joined The Police.

In The Police's defense, I think it's suppose to creep you out. It doesn't exactly portray the situation as romantic.

 

[MGibster]

Warhammer 40K Tells Idiot Fascists Having a God Emperor Is Bad, Actually

“The Imperium of Man stands as a cautionary tale of what could happen should the very worst of Humanity’s lust for power and extreme, unyielding xenophobia set in."

www.vice.com

To be fair, Warhammer 40k is one of the few settings where I have yet to find a fan who said they'd want to live there.

I'm not talking about offense.

Well, okay. But each of your examples sure sounds like people who are responding to something they find offensive. Which I'm not knocking because offense is a perfectly valid reaction.

 

[CleverNickName]

That’s the thing about fascists. They’re so obsessed with the aesthetics of power that, even if you present them as the bad guys, they love it as long as they look like powerful bad guys. The only effective way to critique them is through mockery.

This is why the movie Jojo Rabbit was so brilliant.

 

[Scribe]

Warhammer 40K Tells Idiot Fascists Having a God Emperor Is Bad, Actually

“The Imperium of Man stands as a cautionary tale of what could happen should the very worst of Humanity’s lust for power and extreme, unyielding xenophobia set in."

www.vice.com

This one so weird to me, because its really just people grossly misunderstanding the setting in question.

 

[Charlaquin]

Fair enough. Should the entire HP Fandom roll up then? Since buying anything associated with HP puts money in her pocket, are you saying that everyone who has ever done so since this information about her became public knowledge is supporting bigotry? That's a very big finger to point.

They’re not supporting biggotry, they’re supporting a very powerful woman who is actively using her power to harm transgender people - trans women especially, though trans men and nonbinary people are certainly harmed by the hate movement she supports despite not being their primary target.

 

[MGibster]

This one so weird to me, because its really just people grossly misunderstanding the setting in question.

I don't get how anyone could read any of the lore and not walk away thinking the Imperium of Man's worst enemy is the Imperium of Man. The Space Marines, the poster boys of the game, were taken from their homes at a young age to fight, be indoctrinated, and surgically/genetically altered into being something other than human. They're former child soldiers who have been brainwashed. And as bad as the Space Marines are, some the the backstories of the Officio Assassinorum are even worse.