CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
It sounds like you're trying to equate a consumer's dietary preferences with racism and misogyny. Was that on purpose?
D&D General The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D
- Thread starter Snarf Zagyg
- Start date
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
This is excellent advice for all the whiners and criers kicking up a fuss about orcs gaining some nuance.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Not gonna lie, sometimes it's nice when they're just overt about it instead of beating around the bush and pretending to be civil.
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
Maybe we could simplify this debate by asking what real harm, not hypothetical, and preferably with data, is being caused by these terrible changes to the game.
I’m clearing space on my hard drive now, eagerly awaiting the first data sets.
I’m clearing space on my hard drive now, eagerly awaiting the first data sets.
Thunderfoot
Hero
No, but Orc and Pie is offensive according to your defintions. Hence my overt and sarcastic response. It sounds like you are trying to troll my response, was that on purpose?
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
Citation needed.
Thunderfoot
Hero
Orc is a racial term... that's offensive. Pie is a gluten backed good that is dangerous to diabetics, gluten allergic and vegans (eggs and milk). According to the idea that ALL dangerous things are bad, pie is bad.
It's a hyperbolic extrapolation. (Yes I can go over the top too.
)Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
And why is that a productive contribution to this discussion?Orc is a racial term... that's offensive. Pie is a gluten backed good that is dangerous to diabetics, gluten allergic and vegans (eggs and milk). According to the idea that ALL dangerous things are bad, pie is bad.
It's a hyperbolic extrapolation. (Yes I can go over the top too.
MGibster
Legend
Who would say yes? Of course I wouldn't want something in my game I believed reinforces harmful racial stereotypes of misogyny. But then just because I think something reinforces harmful racial stereotypes doesn't mean you'll agree and vice versa. I think that's where the crux of the problem is in these discussions.
Thunderfoot
Hero
It was an example.. by itself its not. In context it most assuredly is. Sometimes looking in the mirror of righteous hate gives us the opportunity to see when we have left the track of helpful and have started tilting at windmills. Proving racism and sexism is bad is a noble task. Further proving that pink is an offensive color to a group of people is jumping the rails. Believe it or not, I agree that the changes that have taken place are positive, but make no mistake, when you start a campaign of scorched earth, the damage WILL cause unintended non-affiliated damage.
A peaceful protest is great, when someone throws a brick and a riot ensues, it's an illegal assembly, and regardless of the initial positive gathering, it's now a civilly disruptive mob and a group of law breaking criminals. When socially aware and positive change seeking individuals lose sight of the objective (changing obviously offensive material) and start nit-picking details that mean little to the original objective, your movement loses the credibility it needs (and deserves).
There is an old phrase 'Pick your battles' it still applies but in the modern arena of social awareness maybe a better phrase would be 'Pick your meaningful battles.' As I've said here and elsewhere I don't have all the answers, but I do have some cutting questions to keep others honest. I hope we all remember the end goal... to make our hobby a better hobby.
Vaalingrade
Legend
"Suck it up, Buttercup' and garbage about pie being offensive is the opposite of this.
MGibster
Legend
Thunderfoot was replying to comment #531 where you brought up fear of spiders and traumatic experiences with sexual assault. And the thrust of his statement was that consumers need to take responsibility for their own problems. If someone knows they have arachnophobia maybe it's on them to avoid material that has spiderlike creatures in it, like Cyborg Commando (or if they have a phobia of bad games). If someone is a survivor of sexual abuse than maybe games like Vampire: The Masquerade (2018) or Bluebeard aren't for them.
Thunderfoot
Hero
And you have missed the point. That isn't my problem, but yours. It is not the opposite they are the very essence of which I speak. MGibster nailed my point. I suggest you read that post.
Vaalingrade
Legend
No, I see the point quite clearly. I keep seeing it in these threads. When semantic games don't work it's time for mockery and aggression and 'Well it's your fault for being bother/offended/traumatized'.
Same old dance day after day. It's tired and it's no longer working.
Thunderfoot
Hero
Nope, missed completely. I hope you get past this.
Vaalingrade
Legend
How to say 'I want nothing done about this issue' without saying 'I want nothing done about this issue'.
Thunderfoot
Hero
Thank you for putting words in my mouth. Your opinion is offensive. Take your own advice.
MGibster
Legend
That's very cute, but I don't feel the need to be indirect. If you don't want to take any responsibility for what you choose to read or watch that's fine. But don't expect everyone to cater to your wants or needs.
Gradine
Final Form (she/they)
Quoting this for truth. In some ways this can be a vicious cycle; downplaying violence of a non-physical nature can often continue to perpetuate that violence.
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
It doesn’t cloud them at all. They are literally violent, they just aren’t physical. The word violence just simply is not limited to physical force.
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