D&D General The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D

[Charlaquin]

I think it is also a generational thing. If you came into the hobby when it was new, decades ago, it was understood that they were not the good guys.

GW is not without blame here either. They absolutely had periods where they portrayed things in a more heroic light, without the balance of "oh by the way, these are tortured children who are emotionally stunted killing machines and the Imperium deserves to burn."

Again though, I don’t think “these are tortured children who are emotionally stunted killing machines and the Imperium deserves to burn” is actually a balance for the Fascist fans. They fantasize about being tortured, emotionally stunted killing machines, and aspire to be part of an empire that people think deserves to burn.

Now, I don’t think the fact that they get off on that should ruin it for the rest of the fandom. But it does mean no matter how negatively the Imperium is portrayed, it will always be important for Games Workshop and the fans to be vigilant about keeping fascists out of their spaces.

 

[Irlo]

I don't agree with this assessment and I suspect you and I use offense in a different manner. And I honestly don't even know how to address that.

I’m surprised to find disagreement here, but I believe you.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I don't actually think most people who unironically like the Imperium are fascists at heart.

Maybe not, but I believe they might be, on average, particularly vulnerable to fascist messaging.

@Charlaquin beat me to it.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Again though, I don’t think “these are tortured children who are emotionally stunted killing machines and the Imperium deserves to burn” is actually a balance for the Fascist fans. They fantasize about being tortured, emotionally stunted killing machines, and aspire to be part of an empire that people think deserves to burn.

Now, I don’t think the fact that they get off on that should ruin it for the rest of the fandom. But it does mean no matter how negatively the Imperium is portrayed, it will always be important for Games Workshop and the fans to be vigilant about keeping fascists out of their spaces.

I think you might be undervaluing the benefits of trains running on time.

 

[Scribe]

But it does mean no matter how negatively the Imperium is portrayed, it will always be important for Games Workshop and the fans to be vigilant about keeping fascists out of their spaces.

Yeah, and I think considering there have been 2 (at least) public messages in the last few years, when previously I cannot think of a single thing like it in again decades, they are probably aware (now).

 

[Charlaquin]

I think you might be undervaluing the benefits of trains running on time.

I’m afraid I don’t get your meaning.

 

[Scribe]

I’m afraid I don’t get your meaning.

I believe there is a quote, paraphrasing "At least there was bread on the shelves, and the trains ran on time." as a supportive statement towards authoritarian government.

 

[Charlaquin]

I believe there is a quote, paraphrasing "At least there was bread on the shelves, and the trains ran on time." as a supportive statement towards authoritarian government.

Ah, that makes sense.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Ah, that makes sense.

Sorry, I guess that was too obscure.

It was most strongly associated with Mussolini.

 

[Lyxen]

Okay, I'll admit I'm a bit taken aback here, by both your tone and your content; nothing I listed was a solution, everything I listed was a problem, and I didn't throw out a single insult, let alone a strong one. I also don't want to throw a tsunami of changes; these are all relatively minor and easy fixes, and I would agree that D&D, especially since 5e, has been, if not at the forefront of positive inclusivity in the TTRPG, certainly near the front.

OK, then I'm good that I took that tone and posted that content, since at last you have admitted that all that is needed are minor and easy fixes. Because, before that, your posts were all about "significant harm", so what "significant harm" has been done ? To whom ?

That doesn't mean that mistakes aren't made and progress isn't necessary.

Mistakes will always be made, it's the nature of products, as long as the quality is there (and I hear that for example ToA is a quality product, and I did find it so when I ran it) and fixes are minor and easy to fix (which they were, they basically removed a few words which, honestly, were far from being offensive at least in my European eyes).